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Deus Ex seriesThey've exaggerated the inaccuracy(22 posts)(22 posts)
(22 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 12, 2013
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Perscienter: You just have to take a pistol in your firm grip, point it at something and pull the trigger. I'm sure I would hit something of the size of a torso 100% of the time without experience. What is so difficult at pointing an item at a point?
At point blank, sure. At 10 meters, no you wouldn't. At 100 meters, don't even dream about it.
If you don't like the way DX deals with this, either play another game or invest the xp points ^^
Posted March 17, 2013
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Perscienter: You just have to take a pistol in your firm grip, point it at something and pull the trigger. I'm sure I would hit something of the size of a torso 100% of the time without experience. What is so difficult at pointing an item at a point?
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Faenrir: At point blank, sure. At 10 meters, no you wouldn't. At 100 meters, don't even dream about it.
If you don't like the way DX deals with this, either play another game or invest the xp points ^^
Shooting any gun accurately is harder than taking a firm grip, point, shoot. And handguns are much more difficult than longarms. Even the act of pulling the trigger, if your hand/finger positioning is off, (not to mention the 15 lb trigger pull on a DAO handgun) will throw your aim off point. And then there's recoil, and your sight picture is lost. My bro is a Mountie up here in the frozen north of Canada, and he's let me shoot his S&W service pistol before, and I grew up shooting rifles/shotguns, so I have some experience, eh?

Then there's the whole difficulty of actually shooting at another human being with the intent to kill.

Is Deus Ex's shooting model realistic? No, it's way too easy!
Posted March 19, 2013
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Perscienter: You just have to take a pistol in your firm grip, point it at something and pull the trigger. I'm sure I would hit something of the size of a torso 100% of the time without experience. What is so difficult at pointing an item at a point?
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Faenrir: At point blank, sure. At 10 meters, no you wouldn't. At 100 meters, don't even dream about it.
If you don't like the way DX deals with this, either play another game or invest the xp points ^^
Either that or combine a lasersight with a stealth pistol. At that point, it becomes pinpoint accurate, even at long ranges, effectively turning it into a sniper rifle. Only problem is that a single headshot will likely not kill something, so you should try to do a double tap, which should take down most human hostiles.
Posted March 19, 2013
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Faenrir: At point blank, sure. At 10 meters, no you wouldn't. At 100 meters, don't even dream about it.
If you don't like the way DX deals with this, either play another game or invest the xp points ^^
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siseratv: Shooting any gun accurately is harder than taking a firm grip, point, shoot. And handguns are much more difficult than longarms. Even the act of pulling the trigger, if your hand/finger positioning is off, (not to mention the 15 lb trigger pull on a DAO handgun) will throw your aim off point. And then there's recoil, and your sight picture is lost. My bro is a Mountie up here in the frozen north of Canada, and he's let me shoot his S&W service pistol before, and I grew up shooting rifles/shotguns, so I have some experience, eh?

Then there's the whole difficulty of actually shooting at another human being with the intent to kill.

Is Deus Ex's shooting model realistic? No, it's way too easy!
This. I'm not a firearms expert, but I've done a fair amount of target shooting with all sorts of small arms, and it's really shocking how difficult it actually is to hit anything with a handgun. Even if you're standing still and taking your time, in a low-stress situation. As you touched on, even the way you grip the gun and pull the trigger can have a huge impact on your accuracy, to say nothing if your movement speed (good luck hitting anything more than a few yards off while moving). Not only that, but handguns themselves are much less accurate than they are portrayed in movies and games. The difficulty the player has hitting anything in the beginning levels of Deus Ex isn't that far off from being realistic. It's just that most other first person shooters make guns way more accurate than they actually are in real life.
Posted March 19, 2013
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P1na: The game is extremely enjoyable, and I would even say balanced. Sure, shooting may not be as realistic as a person familiar with guns would expect, and some mechanics would have to be changed in order to make it more accurate.
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Perscienter: I agree on all of that.

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P1na: Problem I see is, the chances of achieving the same level of fun balanced gameplay after those changes are low, from my standpoint.

My point is simply, I'm happy we got the game we got. I don't see the game getting better with the changes you propose, and feel it might actually leave it worse.
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Perscienter: And I don't agree on that. Shooting models are aplenty in the market. It's only a matter of applying a good one.

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P1na: Yet they could have tried to tweak and improve some clunky mechanics on the sequel, and we all know they did not. I'm sorry the game feels wrong to you due to those issues, I really do, but calling it broken is something I indeed do not understand.

And if you find a game like DX, but with shooting mechanics to your liking, do let me know. That is a project I would certainly support.
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Perscienter: I don't care about the sequels. The second one was unfinished and had worse physics. The third continues the plague of making wrong design decisions to problems, which were already solved better in the first one. There were probably different people behind it. Warren Spector was only Project Director in the first one I suppose.

The shooting mechanics are broken, Deus Ex in general is great. I just don't want any one to copy the shooting mechanics, because they think that everyone has been calling Deus Ex a great game. No one should copy something uncritically.

That's just an advice that there is no perfect piece of software. They always have to deal with time-constraints, limited personnel and so forth.

The genre is dead, unless a very talented team does something similar. Maybe CD Projekt Red will be able to create a better one.
Invisible War was designed by Harvey Smith and Warren Spector, developed by Ion Storm, and published by Eidos Interactive. Just like the first game. Human Revolution was by completely different people though.
Posted April 11, 2013
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Perscienter: The aim time of more than a few seconds and then only if you aim directly at the opponent doesn't make sense. I understand that they wanted to weaken the FPS part. But was there no other way? Only retarded people would have such a bad accuracy when shooting at someone.

Maybe less inaccuracy and more immunity to a few firearms would have been the solution. The tranquillizing darts could have been weakened to. They shouldn't penetrate most clothing.
Train the skill for the weapon in question and aiming becomes trivial. If you want to spend your skill points elsewhere, then learn to take alternate approaches that don't involve situations in which the aim time becomes crucial to your survival, i.e. avoid combat, use melee weapons or grenades, or get the drop on bad guys so that taking a second to aim isn't an issue.

Is the aim time a bit unrealistic for a character who is an uber secret agent? Yeah. But it hardly ruins the game, particularly if you can show some creativity or have the intellectual flexibility to adjust your playstyle.
Posted May 03, 2013
In a videogame, if you want to recreate a "reallistic" gun mechanics you need to make the player a complete retard because there aren't any of the problems one encounters in a real fight scenario (or event a shooting gallery). Making JC Denton much better at handling guns would have made the game unbalanced, and hence no need for other aproaches (stealth, talking, knife fighting or whatever). Try it if you want, cheat and upgrade only your gun skills and see if you bother yo use other aproaches or styles. You probably won't (and making the enemy betters doesn't solve the problem because then Deus Ex would be just a FPS)

In game desing making something hard is sometimes much better and interesting than making it "real" or easy (although as some people have noted, firing a gun is not easy)
Post edited May 03, 2013 by Naveen
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Deus Ex seriesThey've exaggerated the inaccuracy(22 posts)(22 posts)
(22 posts)