Not the mention the first three Exile games are available for free along with Blades of Exile. These need to be run in a Windows 95/98 VM or DOSBox-hosted Windows 3.1 installation to play on 64-bit systems though. =)

Flynn

Open source version of Blades of Exile has has 32-bit build and 64-bit build in experimental stages.

Yeah, I saw those shortly after I'd posted. I haven't downloaded it yet, but I plan to check them out in the future. =)

Flynn

Avernum 3 is the best game in the series, imo, because it is the only one with a dynamic world that changes based on your party's actions.

Bump of sorts;

OK, I need something explained better (I thought I understood a reply in a thread I opened about this but now, not so sure). I bought a package about a year ago. Avernum 1-6 and "Blades". I started "I". Appears to be from 2000. One poster here said that needed an ancient OS to play but I'm using Win7/64 (merely old) and appears to work fine. I assume this is what as referred at Spiderweb as the original trilogy? I was told GOG never sold this though. Also, the help file keeps referring to a demo - is the GOG Avernum I complete?

Is the GOG Avernum 4-6 the same as what Spiderweb refers to as the second, completely reworked from ground up trilogy? Where does "Blades" fit in? If I do indeed have both trilogies, how different is the story line from say, Avernum 1 compared to Avernum 4?

Are the others mentioned actually a third remake?

Before the first round of remakes, Avernum (1, 2, 3) was known as Exile (1, 2, 3). The current remakes (two of which have been released with the third nearly two years out) have kept the Avernum name but now include a subtitle like Avernum: Escape From the Pit and Avernum 2: Crystal Souls.

GOG never sold the series when it was named Exile. Also, your version should be complete and the reason you see demo references is because the demo and the full game are the same download. No dedicated demo, just the full game that needs to be activated to proceed beyond the demo areas. The GOG version has already been activated so no worries there with Windows (I think some on the Mac have reported technical issues due to Apple not caring much about being backwards compatible).

Blades of Avernum (originally known as Blades of Exile) was released after the original three games but before Avernum 4-6. It is basically a scenario construction set with a couple of short adventures made by the developer with additional fan content available for download.

Thanks; I think I got it. Also understand why it was mentioned that one had to use Win98 or older for Avernum 1-3: it says that on the Spiderweb site but mentions that those sold by GOG work with newer OSs. I guess Spiderweb basically gives away 1-3 as is.

Yeah, the history of these games is really confusing. Short summary:

Orilginal releases: Exile 1-3 (1995 - 1997)

Remakes: Avernum 1-3 (2000 - 2002)

New games: Avernum 4-6 (these have a new engine compared to Avernum 1-3) (2006 - 2010)

Remake of Avernum 1: Avernum: Escape From the Pit (motivated by old engine no longer running well on newer machines, I think) (2011)

Remake of Avernum 2: Avernum: Crystal Souls (2015)

It's not announced yet, but I assume that a remake of Avernum 3 is coming, and it should be titled Avernum: Ruined World.

Just some small additional info:
Original trilogy has been remade twice. Same subtitles or numbers refer to the same story, basically, just to a different version.

Original games:

Exile - Escape from the Pit
Exile II - Crystal Souls
Exile III - Ruined World
Blades of Exile

Released 1995-1997. Blades is basically a scenario editor, slightly altered version of the program Jeff Vogel used to make Exile III. He put 3 small scenarios to show what could be done. These happen some time after Exile III.
These games ran on Win95-98 at least up to XP and on pre-OSX Apple (so OS 7/8/9).
I doubt they run on OSX, considering how bad Apple is.You can make them run on Win-7 if you have the special mode installed that run a virtual (awfully slow) XP on top of Win-7. No idea about Win-10, though - probably not anymore.


Spiderweb remade the original games as: Avernum 1, 2, 3 and Blades of Avernum in early 2000s, to improve graphics and make sure they'd run for many more years on the latest systems at the time.
These run well on Win-7. No idea about Win-10 though (GOG page says they do).

Then Jeff Vogel decided to do another trilogy in later 2000s, so we have Avernum 4, 5 and 6. New graphics system once again. They should work fine on Win-10.


In early 2010s, Spiderweb once again decided to update its flagship series, because Avernum 1,2,3 were getting old - and probably won't work on the next Windows, unless there's once again a special Win-7 virtual mode.
Avernum Escape from the Pit is remake of Avernum 1 - itself remake of Exile 1
Avernum Crystal Souls is remake of Avernum 2 - itself remake of Exile 2
Avernum Ruined World will be a remake of Avernum 3, and of Exile 3.

That said, Spiderweb site says they're working on Avadon III. Avernum 3's remake will come next, logically, so we won't see it before next year, I assume.

Good to know; I had been thinking of starting at "4" but now know that would be ridiculous.

Now that I'm playing "1" and bearing in mind that I am relatively new to RPGs (just Stonekeep, Gothic I-III, Avadon 1-2, Vampire the Masquerade Redemption and Bloodlines, and Eschalon I-III), I've noticed many simularities between this game and Eschalon trilogy (not storywise) - is there some sort of relationship or is it just standard ways this venre is put together?

Well, I guess someone here would have to had played Eschalon to know what I'm talking about.

I haven't played Eschalon, but I do know that there is no relation between the Eschalon games and the Avernum games. In fact, I remember when the first Eschalon games came out, a lot of people were saying that it looked a lot like a Spiderweb game but with better graphics (and only one character instead of a party), even though it was from a completely different developer.

I would say that both Avernum and what I've seen of Eschalon are using some tried and true design tenets for the genre, though. I've heard that the original Exile games were heavily inspired mechanically by the Ultima series, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Eschalon games were as well. And much of that design, in turn, is heavily inspired by the Dungeons and Dragons pen-and-paper ruleset, at least for combat.

There are many types of RPG. The ones you've played show off a few of them: Stonekeep is a first-person dungeon crawler which would be very familiar to those who played classics like Dungeon Master and Eye of the Beholder. The Gothic games are open-world real-time RPGs of the type that are popular recently (e.g. Skyrim, Witcher 3). I haven't played the Avadon games but I hear they are inspired by Bioware games in terms of characters and combat design. Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines is more in the vein of Deus Ex, i.e. a combination of RPG and first-person "immersive sim". And the Eschalon games are classic turn-based top-down (or isometric) RPGs like Ultima, or indeed Avernum.

I've enjoyed them all in their own way although Avernum I hasn't drug me in like some others. I suppose it will once I learn the ins and outs better.

I tried playing one of the Ultima games (it was a freebie from GOG) but the graphics were so poor that I couldn't tell what was what and I soon gave up on it. Didn't play enuf to catch the connection.

For me, the main appeal of Avernum is the world and writing. The mechanics are fine, but I primarily enjoyed exploring the caves and the mostly plausible civilization that had bloomed down there.

I actually haven't played the Ultima series, but I do know that the games change a lot over the course of the series. The early entries are very old and comparatively simple, while later games like Ultima VII are considered by many to be some of the best RPGs ever made. Those were notable for having a believable world that went about its business even the the player wasn't involved, and tons of freedom to explore and do whatever one wanted. I'm guessing that if you played a freebie it was one of the earlier ones that are really showing their age now.

Someone who knows Ultima better should probably step in and correct any mistakes I'm making here!

EDIT: One day I intend to play through the Ultima series, I just haven't found time yet.

Ultima 8 and 9 are generally considered not that good, and people seem to think that Ultima 1 is better than Ultima 2.

Ultima 7 has one major issue that people tend not to mention; the combat was horrible. They went from a decent turn based combat system to a poor real time one where there's little you can do to influence the course of the battle. That is not progress. (I have a feeling that Planescape: Torment is better from a combat perspective.)

I also hear good things about Ultima IV, famous for having players seek enlightenment in the eight virtues, rather than simply defeat an evil baddie. In fact I think I've heard good things about games IV - VII.

Anyway, apologies for derailing the thread off of the Avernum games.