Died in a cave looking for treasure. Not going to resurrect anymore, done that twice already. Thanks for the game!

edit: great map, Southern! The UD may be too strong but I kinda like the hopelesness vibe. Though I think I was doing quite well and that's probably what got me killed - didn't expect a Karagh in that cave.

Weirdly I haven't actually got my leader killed yet, though I did restart earlier when I got all four spellcasters killed in an unecessary battle vs the Undead.

And thanks, I think this must be my best map, even though so far everyone has been dumpstered by the AI on it except Arnuz, and he probably used a fair few dominated Wraiths.

Oh crap... for about 10 turns I've been using a Wraith to defend a small city+3 farm+guild enclave, and just realised it's against the game rules to do that. I forgot that I banned dominating Undead units because that was 'too good' compared to anyone who didn't manage it. Eh..... I'll disband the wraith and send 300 gold to the remaining player, and it should balance out.

Anyway, as for changing the map:
In this version of the map, the Undead have 40 tier4 cities and they started with 4905 or so net income. Too much, clearly!

Pursuant to this game, I've edited the map so they have 20 tier4 cities, 20 tier3 cities, and 10 tier2 cities, and 1921 net income. That will mean fewer Undead and especially fewer Reapers, but probably more demons and doom horrors to threaten walled towns.

Also, I increased base income for the players from 40 to 60, and reduced the win-condition Altar guards from 2 Angels to 1 Angel.

I've also just now added another circle of holy woods to the magic vaults, to boost the Azracs and Dwarves. This is because the Undead AI doesn't raze evil-aligned cities, which makes the game much easier for the three evil players.

Plus, making the undead weaker will mean the anti-domination rule no longer has to be included, because it doesn't matter as much.

Restarted to win this battle;

https://i.imgur.com/PbJXNIA.png

with maxed stats (except for only 8 dam and 20 hp) and lifesteal, fighting them 1 at a time should be reliable; however I died unluckily the first time. too lazy to test, but if I die that way again I won't restart, as that'll demonstrate it wasn't just extreme bad luck the first time.

Just wanted to chime in and say I agree this map was excellent, and also that I found the Undead quite manageable. I made sure not to connect any other tunnels to my spawn area, at the expense of slower expansion, but was quickly able to dogpile defenders on my lone tunnel entrance, and was relatively safe for a manageable amount of upkeep. Also found the surface to be quite survivable for faster units with Free Movement, Fire Halo or Water Walking, such as my Leader. PS the only reason I chose Water Concealment / Underground Concealment was to catch Southern off guard from the surface :P

I finally carked it for good. Started a battle, instantly got ''Invoke Death'-ed on my 10 DEF 10 RES leader, which is a 1% chance I think. Odd, since they usually only autoattack. Maybe it chose to use the ability because it could read the RNG string????

But it's a sign, I'll take the death this time.

GG, well done to Blackcat for surviving the longest! Don't know if you'll bother playing on alone, but the win conditions are either defeating the Undead leader (who is in a great city on the middle of the surface) or by flagging the five Highman altars.

As previously mentioned, next version has fewer Undead and especially fewer Reapers.

They used Invoke Death exclusively on my leader (also 10 DEF 10 RES).

Thanks Southern, I ended up dying three turns later on the surface x) . They invoked death upon my heroes and troops and then gradually beat down my leader with three stacks of Reapers and Bone Horrors.

I found the Undead maneagable at first but they just continue to multiply and get exponentially more difficult. At the end I was primarily roaming the surface and capturing resources while barely holding on to a city or two. Was difficult because as mentioned they would raze on capture.

The map and premise where fantastic though, and I definitely agree that the feeling of hopelessness and the suffocating swarms of undead lend credence to that. I can see why it would be difficult to find a balance considering the Undead are supposed to be the dominant power on the map. For victory to be attainable- even if it is against the odds the measures you've suggested sound like a sound place to start.

Once again, great map, great premise! Looking forward to seeing the next incarnation of this map and if balance is achieved in just how powerful the Undead are.

GG Everyone!

Yeah, I wouldn't nerf the Undead too much. It was a fresh element to the game for me that I enjoyed. Usually the AI is just XP for the superleader race.

After you died, they continued to increase their presence. It can take the AI a long time to develop the large garrisons it likes, plus installing units etc. The next version of the map will probably still have the Undead as a major force, but it won't be like this game, where the Azracs and I had a small border conflict that then got swamped by the Undead horde. Seriously, they were flooding the map!

Swamped is a good word ahaha. Agreed though that having the Undead as an all powerful force was a fresh and great aspect of this map. Just need to balance and test to the point where victory is achievable.