yup, not gonna buy this since its not DRM free,

i sure don't like to be treated as if i'm a guest on a game that i bought.

and i don't like the idea of offline mode, because that sentence usually meant that on offline mode there are things that are disabled.

until the dev change this, i'm not gonna bother.

and it seems they also add this login bullshit on their steam version,

@dev : you've lost a customer, and i dare to bet that there are a lot more peoples like me, and you seem do not understand the idea of GOG, GOG = DRM free, enough said.

lately i've been avoiding buying from steam, because of their crappy customer service, but i sure hope that GOG stays DRM free.

Everyone who is unhappy about DRM infected games being offered on GOG, may want to vote up this item in the community wishlist: http://www.gog.com/wishlist/site/remove_drm_drmfree_only.

I couldn't agree more that they need to update. That first review needs to reflect how things stand. Many people will never get past the review. It will also make GOG look really bad. Before I found your post, I was angry at them breaking their core principle, and the fact that, for the first time, I had to search for the term DRM on GOG. Guys! Fix your reviews!

And where do we vote about stupid peoples lying and misinforming others, thus turning them away from a perfectly functionnal and nice game ?

Again, to all those reading this thread :
1/ this game works fine and has NO DRM, I never created any account, you just have 1 box to check to play all the time without any kind of login or online account.
2/ Offline mode is fully functionnal, all settings and games are saved perfectly fine, and were from the start.
3/ This is a good game and a good installment of the AoW series
4/ For those who like it, you can activate some extra goodies like online plays, achievements and that sort of stuff but again, this is optionnal and never impaired normal offline play, this is a plus, never mandatory.

This is nasty to lie and spit mud on the face of some guys who are courageous enough to release an AAA title without DRM here on GOG, really nasty and evil. This kind of attitude may only turn game editors away from what we strive for: more quality DRM free games.
We should rather encourage them to go on and help them improve the game when we see room for improvement.
This is a constructive behavior that will make a step in the right direction toward our DRM-free goal.

Oh, yes. I've been wondering about it too. It's really stupid when the most 'useful' reviews about a perfectly fine game are blatant lies.

Many people, including myself, do think this game contains DRM. Just because you disagree about the definition of DRM does not make these people liars.

That said, if you want to "vote about stupid peoples lying" you can always open an item in the requested features.

In the meantime, enjoy not playing any multiplayer because of the definitely not DRM matchmaking that somehow you need even on your personal LAN.

Yes - I too think, that needing an account with Triumph is DRM. So game actually is not DRM free. It has reduced DRM, I too did not (yet) create an account since I do not use multiplayer.

So the discussion makses sense, and people claiming that the game is *not* DRM free are correct. It has reduced DRM, in single player mode it is actually DRM free, in a way.

Regrettably this does not mean its hassle free...

I just purchased the DLC Golden Realms. Cannot use it, since the GOG installer claims it cannot find the game - even if I start it inside the GOG installed game folder. This too is sort of DRM. At least it is just as annoying...
Reading here I find, that I need to *redownload 1.9GB* just to get the new GOG installer (whatever this thing does) and the patched game, which is necessary for the new DLC. I always save downloads. I have the original GOG game installer (1.9GB) and two patches, which came out in the meantime. Both installed without problems, despite the fact the game is installed in a nonstandard place (E:\Games\AOW3). The game runs without any problems.

And now the installer I just purchased claims it cannot find the game, and I am forced to uninstall a perfectly working game (version 2.0.3.7), download 1.9GB *again*, save it, reinstall, and then *maybe* I can use, what I just purchased? This is in some ways worse than what I heard about Steam...

M.

Did they patch it to remove that awful front screen asking to create a Triumph account? (YES i know you have to use the guest offline) - i thought they were going to patch it out????

No - the screen is still here. If you do not want to see it anymore, do this:

Change the Desktop Icon (Right Click/ Properties) from (in the Target-Field for the executable):
"<your path>\Age of Wonders III\AoW3Launcher.exe"
to
"<your path>\Age of Wonders III\AoW3.exe" -offline

Mind the "" around the full path to the program, the -offline option should be outside the "".

Then you will circumvent the launcher and start AOW3 direct, and the '-offline' option tells the program, that you want to be offline. It will still remember all your settings. In the first version of AOW3 the launcher had a bug and did not remember your setting - but starting the game directly remembered the setting. This works since the first patch, but I still start it this way, because its faster and has fewer clicks.

M.

Awesome!! thanks :)

Well, I too have the game installed in a non-standard place. I too got the Golden Realms DLC and the installer told me it could not find the game... but when you look at hints, it could not find the game with the right version.
So I had a look in my GOG.com\age_of_wonders_3 folder and miracle ! The nifty GOG downloader had a 5 MB patch_age_of_wonders3_2.2.1.12.exe patch for me ! :)
Patching took a breath, then the Golden Realms DLC installed smoothly and in no time I was playing an updated AoW3 with all DLCs.

This is quite representative of this sad discussion. People are frustrated because some features, like multiplayer, does not work as they would like, or they encounter bugs, or do not manage to make some stuff work nicely. Then they get angered, smash it all together in a messy bundle, wrap it with DRM!! DRM!! buzzwords and throw it into the forums. Quite nasty, useless and bad for everyone, including DRM-free advocacy.

One can speak his mind, of course, but to make up for a proper and useful discussion we must sort things out and be honest between facts and opinions. A bug or a wish for a feature is one thing, putting a software and GOG on the gallows for DRM use is completely another...

I guess one can now see most technical issues are solved, either have been patched or can easily be with a bit of caution. Then this thread being about DRM, let us leave technical problems to the other threads where they belong.

So about the DRM issue, there is no DRM for normal solo game.
Now one can think requesting an account for online Internet gaming is DRM.
I just feel that this is necessary from a logical and technical standpoint to be able to identify yourself in online games, associate your scores, ranking, preferences, friends list and all other social stuff. I just can't see how anyone could do this without an account to store it all.
So it's only an optional extra feature, provided at no cost by the folks at Triumph, that you can activate or not, not the core game.
I am not the kind of guy for online play, ladders and the like but I understand most people like this and are happy with such feature.
Now if one would like a LAN multiplayer, or any other feature, he can ask politely and maybe the devs would listen. This is an entirely different attitude than calling for the devs to do his whims, and one much more likely to bring good results. Most probably LAN is already on the roadmap and it's just a question of time.

Also one last point : I feel we should *all* thanks GOG and Triumph to bring us some nice AAA games DRM-free, this is most important for the DRM free revolution and we need to encourage them and give them useful feedback so they can improve and we see more and more quality DRM-free games and platforms.

Cheers guys !

Interesting...
I knew, that I would need the patch for the new content. So I expected to download the Golden Realms plus the last patch. Or maybe that the last patch is included into the new content. I have seen both methods.

But - as I reported: All the patches were gone from my account, even the three patches I already installed. There was no patch at all, only the new installer and the new content. If you saw it differently in your account, something is fishy, since obviously we purchased the same things. I also wrote to support and I am waiting for an answer. And in the meantime a new patch for the new version is in my account, after downloading 1.9GB and reinstalling the game I could install Golden Realms and patch it with this patch.

I never saw a patch which I could use to patch my existing version to the last version and I could not install the new content without reinstalling the entire game. This is, what I complained about. I find it interesting, that you had another experience - yet I seem not to be the only person who has had this issues.

I do not use the GOG downloader, I do not like 'tools' who do things 'automatically'. I have no troubles to do this by hand, so I manually download files and patches, store them and use it.

The issue with the new installer (full game), the disappearing patch files and last but not least the new patch without documentation is not really resolved. I can play the game in its last version and with the new content I purchased. But I still am waiting for a short explanation why this happened.

That I compared this to the annoyance one has with DRM was intentional, but it is not DRM.

Here you are wrong, IMHO. Requesting an account with Triumph is not DRM per se, but receiving a key from GOG and registering this key with your account, and pointing the game to this account and the key is DRM, since it is necessary to use the game in multi player at all. There is nothing to discuss - the game is locked for multi player, and unlocked by an external Triumph site with your account and key.

You are right if you say, that single player mode is DRM free.

I do not think that this account is necessary for any logical reasons (scores, ranking,...) - the account could be optional if somebody wants this and the account in itself with a name and password is enough to identify a player. The key is not needed for this - it is DRM.

Concerning the ability to use LAN at home without Triumphs site (you cannot use the game in multi player on your private LAN if this LAN does not have an Internet connection too): This issue was on the official forums since the game came out. There where a lot of people asking for this. It will not be implemented, I think, because with a bit of knowledge about connections and networks it would be easy to circumvent the LAN limitation and play on the Internet. Again - multi player is locked with DRM obviously. And I understand that people complain about this, because it is very easy and cheap to build a LAN at home, between 3 or 4 computers, you do not need any Internet connection and you can do this everywhere. Yet - you cannot play the game in multi player, because you need Internet to authorize all your games - and this is per definition DRM.

But...
I only stated, that the game has DRM, and I think this is true. I too am a single player person. So I do not really care! But please let us name the things with correct names: The games multi player mode is protected with DRM.

I do not yell at GOG - I understand it. I understand Triumphs line of thinking, and I agree, that since the game can be played DRM free in single player it fits to GOGs policy. But still it is important to state, that GOG here made a compromise. And they should say so, I think it is a good compromise! But there should be a limit, since the gaming industry will try to bring DRM even to GOG, if possible. If necessary in small steps...

Let us be honest: The game is AAA and it is quite small compared to other AAA games. (Only around 2 GB). If there were no DRM at all, it would hurt the game. We all know, that every AAA game is 'released' by cracker groups on the same day of the official release. So cracked versions are at least limited. I understand this. And one of the most annoying things of modern online DRM is that you cannot play at all if you do not have a connection on some place where you are. (The second thing for me is, that I do not want a game to report, that I am playing now and one does not know which information a game is sending out on the Internet). So I think it is a good compromise what they did - but it still is a compromise.

There was a post which called all persons who said that the game has sort of DRM liars. This was the reason I chimed in. The game has DRM. It is acceptable and I can live with it - and even if I would play multi player I would find it acceptable. But since GOG says all its games are completely DRM free, I think it is important to state, that this is not true for this game.

People like you, who say that the methods used are not DRM make an error, IMHO: The gaming industry will try to use methods to protect their games. If you accept AOW3s DRM by saying it is not really DRM you open the door for DRM protected games on GOG! So lets call things by their correct names, even if we accept them!

M.

Well, weird.
For me the patches for the base game ware, as expected, in their regular folder.
Just checked and both in GOG Downloader and manual mode I see a link for a patch.
But then one point: I use the French version of AoW3, so maybe that's where the difference comes...

Also you made me smile about you attention about doing everything manually since I feel about the same. Only that I accepted that we just can't craft and carry on ourselves every network packet from one CPU to the HDD on the other side :p So I accept that we can sometimes use tools. But I carefully examine what a tool do and on what purpose. On the specific matter of GOG Downloader it's just a simple download manager that do the same things, including proper files/folders organization, that I would have done myself. Basically I also trust GOG about their intentions and means and until now I feel this trust is well-earned.
Also the GOG Downloader does nothing on its own, it just handle the download when you click on the link and store it in a well-sorted folder.
Now I think you are totally right in your approach to try and limit the number of tools we are dependent of, and beside to be conscious about what we do and what it implies.

Yeah. What was wrong in all those yelling were mixing technical issues and claiming blindly that one needed an online account and that this is DRM.
Now per definition the key is a sort of DRM since it limits the numbers of accounts one can have on the server. This is the only point, which is, as we agree, not relevant for the core game.

Well, I am in the network and server field with good background in all the stuff involved here and frankly a kind of handle is needed to be able to keep together all data linked to a given player. This handle is usually implemented as an account and protected with a password but this is just a detail. Now sure if one just want to connect and play with random peoples each time, you can just setup a brain-dead hub :p
But I'm afraid they would not get many customers this way ;)

Well, I'm not so sure if this won't be implemented. LAN party and online play are two different beasts. LAN game is between friends, people that know each others and have enough technical skills to setup a VPN or the like create their private network. This does not give any other feature an account on a persistent online server brings to you (ease of use, permanent availability, meeting other peoples, keeping track of your past games, friends, ladder, social networking, a community,...).
Also keeping up and running a dedicated online server, maintaining its software, ensuring its security and technical support for users requires a lot of resources, and money, per month. So imho the fact they limit to one account per user on such server does not mean they would not implement a LAN feature that basically costs them nothing to maintain.
But for sure an online server is more attractive to the majority of users so it's natural they focus on that first and the LAN feature may be done later.

And I agree with you. The lies were in those all-out attacks stating the game was crap, did not work and is locked away by DRM. As I said, what made me chimed in was this is a messy bundle, while your analysis is correct and interesting beside that :)

Well, basically I could not agree an online account is DRM when it's a technical requirement to satisfy some needs.
Again all depends on the intent. Even if you don't have an account with Google, Microsoft, Apple or the like they still track your every moves and act based upon this, worst of DRM with no explicit key registration ;)

Now the interesting point you raise is about compromise... What is or is not acceptable ?
Can we expect from anybody, including all those who shouted so loud at the start of this thread, to pay the initial and recurring costs of an online server for all those wishing to use it ?
So yeah, I follow your point about the fact that this is natural to allow one account per game.

Also I think we need to keep in mind one very important point: DRM-free does not mean we can be any kind of thief.
We know all software cost a lot of money, time and effort to make. This is a huge investment and the deal is that each and every people using it participates in refunding the creators for their efforts and investment.
Now what is bad in DRM is that it basically assume we are all thieves until we manage to prove the opposite... and the actual tendency as you point out with being online each time we want to use a software is to consider we are always suspects, potential criminals needing to be constantly monitored...
This lead to the paradox that real thieves using cracked versions of the software have a much more easy way than the regular users, human stupidity unleashed by control freaks :)

So yeah I feel you are right, vigilance is always important, especially nowadays, but an all-or-nothing approach is not always needed, not a good thing.

In the end I agree with you, this single key to ensure only one account per user can be an acceptable compromise here. One can still install on all his computers and play as he likes with no control. We are obviously not in the real bad use of DRM.
Now let's work for a better world where even this kind of compromise will no more be useful ;)

Cheers!

Having read a lot about the game before making a decision to buy really made me happy now.
I see a MUCH bigger problem here.

What happens when triumph shuts down their server?
SP only AoW3... great...

As with relationships, if i believe it will not work forever, it is better not to start it at all.
And I doubt GOG can guarantee that multiplayer via triumph will be available forever.

Though I think that guarantee would take a lot of tension.. at least for me. :D

I'm sure this has been said many times but here it goes again: servers for multiplayer cost money to maintain so it's natural they want to ensure that people using those servers are paying customers....this is not something I can fault anybody for, it just ensures that people who pirated the game cannot get on the MP servers and really shouldn't be much of a nuisance for us to redeem the code. If you want complete DRM free multiplayer just wait for Galaxy to come out.

Now, with all that said(again), I have absolutely zero intention of ever playing multiplayer so my code will likely sit there, unused, forever.