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General discussionGOG Mafia #59 - Previously on Mafia...(1130 posts)(1130 posts)
(1130 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 21, 2019
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dedoporno: OK, I'm scared now.

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flubbucket: This really makes the most sense. I'll not bow to pressure.

Unvote: JoeSapphire

Vote: GameRager
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dedoporno: This came 3 minutes after Pooka's.

unvote GameRager
I really doubt you're scared.
Posted June 21, 2019
It's been what, nearly 75 posts since my last post? Are we still just faffing about, or are people starting to solidify? The latest vote count and a quick vote check shows that the leading wagon has 3 votes and a whole bunch of wagons have 2 votes, so I guess we're still faffing about.

Probably less than 24 hours to deadline, people. Time to actually make some decisions.
Posted June 21, 2019
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flubbucket: I really doubt you're scared.
You gave me pause. And scene's question actually makes sense.

I do believe I'm made good points about GR but you really did a whole lot of vote-hopping all of a sudden just to get back to square one in the end.

I'm not sure what to make of that.
Posted June 21, 2019
@flub, would you lynch anyone other than GR? I'm not proposing an alternative but asking for your conviction on this.
Posted June 21, 2019
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JoeSapphire: Who do you guys reckon the mafias are?

I'm gonna say... Microfish, Carr and SirPrimalform.
So, trent is Joe, and Joe is Microfish, eh? Have I cracked the code?

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JoeSapphire: Nope, no scumbuddies for Joe!
Poor, poor Joe, left all alone without a scumbuddy at the start of D2! It's a good thing that you still have your little brother who understands your plight!


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dedoporno: If scum is going to claim a full power role the risk of getting counter-claimed by the same full role is the smallest for the blocker.
One of us isn't understanding the other, and I'm no longer certain it's you, but let's try this again:
A town full roleblocker only requires a single B to be rolled out of 7 dice. Vig needs VV, Cop needs CC. The chance for either of those is smaller than the chance for B.
That means that for full roles, doctor (and innocent child) are likeliest, then roleblocker, then cop, then vig.

What scum claims, has no bearing on the roles town has. Only that single B is necessary for town to have a full roleblocker (and thus 'counterclaim' scum), regardless of what scum is claiming.

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gogtrial34987: "Gogtrial, Joe, Pooka, Wyrm I don't want to vote at all Today."

Could you reiterate for each of these why not?
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dedoporno: There isn't more to add than what I have said so far and I really don't feel like repeating myself.

The short answer is that these people are feeling the least scummy of the bunch and look like they are trying to figure the game out even though not everyone shares the same opinions (or mine in some cases) but that is only natural considering we are not the same person.
Repeating yourself helps us validate the consistency of your play. And here's the thing. You haven't actually said anything about considering Joe or Pooka town on D2. (I just scanned over all your posts today again to make certain.) You mentioned me and bookwyrm in #550, but without any reasoning, just agreeing to trent's read.
The last time you gave anything resembling a read on Joe was during the blotunga wagon analysis:
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dedoporno: That might have been a natural and organic transition or Joe was presented with good reasons to stick to his vote and not have to look for reasons to vote others. I tend to prefer the former as Joe said he wants to see SPF as mafia which checks out. Unless, of course, that was just D1 distancing and the SK surprised them which would probably be perfect for scum-Joe is it's making him look better for it. I'll leave this for now though as when I started writing this paragraph I had Joe more on the Town side of things but as I went on I started to hesitate what all of this means. I want to see him as Town as he is way too attractive to be scum.
Talk about wishy-washy...

I'll go check your D1 posts now.
Posted June 21, 2019
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PookaMustard: What of blotunga that gets him your vote? I noticed he's been pretty much absent in the last two pages (50 posts per page). I think it's worth re-enabling Adalia Fundamentals and doing a quick ISO on him.
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dedoporno: I've already shared my concerns and feelings on the matter. I'd rather not repeat myself unless you really insist but I strongly hope you didn't skip what I wrote so far.
Hey, that answer looks familiar!
The only "concerns and feelings" dedo ever shared on this subject before that point was this post:
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JoeSapphire: Blotunga's being asked questions from various sources and he has a firm answer for them, which strikes me as odd in itself. The logic behind the answers is sometimes questionable, but he's giving the answers with certainty.
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dedoporno: That's pretty much what is bothering me about him - this sense of purpose and intent to execute a carefully planned play, but the play itself and the way it was executed wasn't wasn't (in my personal opinion) that great to to justify it.

I'm not sure if that made any sense...

Also #JoeIsSexyAF.
Again tagging along with someone else's opinions.

Ah, and here we finally have a D1 read which mentions the four people in question:
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dedoporno: At the moment I feel best about gogtrial and maybe Joe to some extent. Gogtrial is seemingly trying to genuinely figure things out and scumhunt. Joe is giving me a different vibe from the previous game when he was freaking me out for the majority of the game and turned out to be scum indeed. I think I can see wyrm's frustration with scene coming from a town mindset, so maybe I can say I like him too.

Pooka and flub a notch down but also make me feel better than most others. Leaning Town.
(That also is the only other post in which dedo says anything about feeling bad about blotunga. And, I'm thinking, this was a major part in the way he pocketed me.)

Sorry for the whiplash my voting behaviour might be giving anyone. I think it likely that if dedo has a partner, it'll be Joe. But dedo I find much more certain now:
vote dedo
Posted June 21, 2019
Vote Count

(When you see a vote count please quickly make sure your vote is against the correct player. Let me know if it's not)

GameRager 3 - Bookwyrm, Pooka, flub
scene 2 - Micro, GameRager
flub 1 - trent
JoeSapphire 1 - scene
dedo 1 - gogtrial

Everyone else - 0
Not voting: JoeSapphire, dedoporno

10 players left. It takes 6 to lynch.

I'm landing 7 pm UTC tomorrow, and since I'd rather be packing and having a nice Saturday before I leave, without worrying about Mafia, I'm not going to end it before that. So Day will end 7pm + howevermuch it takes me to drive to my place and get to my laptop.

Or you know, you could all go with a nice "Surprise! We hammered!" to greet me when I land.
Posted June 21, 2019
Correction; there was one more dedo post on blotunga (which I missed because it didn't mention him by name):
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flubbucket: His Unvote was just too opportunistic.
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dedoporno: His original vote as well. I like you.
In the interest of fairness, dedo, I went through your posts at speed, so it's possible I missed more. It's even possible I missed enough that I'll have to conclude that I'm wrong here. If I did, I would greatly appreciate it if you could point it out to me.
Posted June 21, 2019
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gogtrial34987: Repeating yourself helps us validate the consistency of your play. And here's the thing. You haven't actually said anything about considering Joe or Pooka town on D2. (I just scanned over all your posts today again to make certain.) You mentioned me and bookwyrm in #550, but without any reasoning, just agreeing to trent's read.
And I haven't said that my stance on either of them has changed since D1 either. In my book that means that I'm continuing to consider them more trustworthy then others.

I don't see the merit in repeating the same thing over and over again unless there is a notable change that needs to be pointed out.

On both days I've been agreeing with thoughts and opinions from the people on that list or I in some cases when we wouldn't agree I would see be able to make some sense trying to look from their perspective.

You happen to be one I believe is making most sense, take that in whatever way you like.

Wyrm's general behavior seems to come from Town's mindset and things he has brought up about the game make more sense on that side of things.

Pooka also seems to be trying to figure the game out and even though in some cases we seem to see things differently my general feeling about him is positive.

I told Joe himself that I prefer to consider him as Town when he asked if I think his lynch would be a mislynch when GR was ready to vote for him. He felt different before when he was scum.

I don't know what else you expect but that's what I have to offer.


Also, I can't say I appreciate the fact that you are painting my original stance on blotunga as piggybacking just because I wasn't on it first. Do I have to apologize about joining the game almost 3 days after it started and things had already happened?
Posted June 21, 2019
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JoeSapphire: Even if GameRager's lying, we'll be able to deal with that better in the future than we can now.
How?

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Microfish_1: Also, @Bookwyrm, for you: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
I am amused. :)

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Microfish_1: >Am willing to lunch Flub, to test Trent's theory.
>If flub is town, Trenton shall fall to George Washington (or the British, whichever) in a hurry.
Isn't this basically what GameRager suggested doing with Scene and JoeSapphire?

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gogtrial34987: Along with yourself, that's four of the five people I have in my lynch pool which you're unwilling to vote for. I'm guessing you don't agree with my reasoning for provisionally clearing the rest?
I don't agree with that reasoning. I don't put stock in "SPF did/did not interact with certain players, therefore they are/are not scum." I think there's too much happenstance involved.

Also, have you considered who SPF interacted with in a pro-active manner, as opposed to only a reactive manner? Were there players that SPF addressed only because they addressed him first? That question goes for both this game and the other game.

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flubbucket: It's simple.

Take the cap off the bottle, throw it away and don't stop until it's all gone.
You know that old adage about "I'm not a 15 year old girl, but I play one on the internet"?

I'm currently amusing myself by imagining you as a 15 year old girl pretending to be some wildly drunk, cranky old dude.

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gogtrial34987: I suspect Book most, because he's otherwise just town to me, and I find him far too agreeable and right and lock-town, which must be a sign of scum!Book pocketing me.
You and everyone else, apparently. I'm so deep wolf that even I think I'm town.

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gogtrial34987: I have this habit of thinking around too many corners when I'm too involved. Need to take a step back and go for the simplest solution.
Hi Bler!

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supplementscene: Not that there aren't 2 Mafia players who didn't kill anyway
...

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PookaMustard: - Bookwyrm: He's certainly bloodthirsty. While I believe in that mislynches are inevitable, he embraces them. He leans town to me, but I'm afraid of what scummy Wyrm play is like.
Less bloodshed, believe it or not. I don't think I've ever managed to kill someone while not town (lynches don't count). I've tried a few times, but it has always failed due to game rules and not some town role.

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trentonlf: My oldest daughter Grace ... will be getting married on Sunday so I will be pretty busy until then. Going to be a great weekend :-D
Yay gardening!! :D

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trentonlf: I see dedo also hinted I might be a cop
I think I missed that. Where?

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supplementscene: So to clarify the odds of a Town Roleblocker coming up is either 3% or 4%?
No. But thanks for making ZFR twitch. :)

My math and method matched gogtrial, so yay.

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dedoporno: poke
Hey Dedo, we've talked a fair bit here on D2. I have a question for you.

Do you have a trap in mind?
Posted June 22, 2019
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trentonlf: I know my activity this game has not been the best and I apologize, but it will not get any better over the next few days. My oldest daughter Grace who just finished the chemo a couple of months ago will be getting married on Sunday so I will be pretty busy until then. Going to be a great weekend :-D
Super-huge congratulations to Grace, her betrothed, you, and all of both families! I am so glad that this day has arrived! :D I wish them all the best and decades of a full and happy marriage!

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Bookwyrm627: You won't see it coming!
Groan.
Posted June 22, 2019
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gogtrial34987: Correction; there was one more dedo post on blotunga (which I missed because it didn't mention him by name):
In the interest of fairness, dedo, I went through your posts at speed, so it's possible I missed more. It's even possible I missed enough that I'll have to conclude that I'm wrong here. If I did, I would greatly appreciate it if you could point it out to me.
I don't know what you expect me to point out if you actually ISO'd my posts and didn't see anything of merit in them. I believe I've made good points on the few suspects I've had so far (even though in blotunga's case the final result turned out a failure). I can't not acknowledge that I'm probably wrong about others as well - it's likely some of them are among the people I consider less or even not at all scummy - but I've made my stance and I'm sticking to it. Especially when we know that there are 2 mafiosos left at most - so if I do suspect particular people more, others would look that much better by extension (based on interactions with these suspects, the flipped scums and general behavior). All of that plus gut feelings.

The only thing that actually made me pump the breaks a few posts ago was the quick shift in flubs vote back and forth based on what I wrote about the claim and counter-claim (which wasn't even meant as a major point by the way, just another small thing that I thought about and decided to share, but it was blown out of proportion anyway).


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Bookwyrm627: Do you have a trap in mind?
Nothing pro-active, unfortunately.
Posted June 22, 2019
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flubbucket: Okay.

I'm going on record that GameRager is scum. I will be mocking with pelvic thrusts when I'm proven right.

Unvote: GameRager
Weird, non-town play.

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JoeSapphire: Looked at the beginning of day one. SirP's first vote of the game is Flubbucket, and flub and he have some banter.

Would they have the nerve to do that? Absolutely.

Would they actually do it? I'd like to believe so but I'm struggling.


unvote flubbucket

A bold statement ... for such uncertain logic... How much can be read into the people that didn't interact with SirP?
I agree with what I've snipped.
This is 1/2 of the "Unbeatable duo" or some such from last game; he certainly has guts to do it, and I think his read on flub also having guts enough is correct.

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Bookwyrm627: I am amused. :)

Isn't this basically what GameRager suggested doing with Scene and JoeSapphire?
1) Very Good.
2) In a word, No--he voted for that theory. I am not voting for Flub; merely speculating and theorizing. My vote is still on scene, who I barely still find scummiest.

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Bookwyrm627: I don't agree with that reasoning. I don't put stock in "SPF did/did not interact with certain players, therefore they are/are not scum." I think there's too much happenstance involved.

Also, have you considered who SPF interacted with in a pro-active manner, as opposed to only a reactive manner? Were there players that SPF addressed only because they addressed him first? That question goes for both this game and the other game.

You know that old adage about "I'm not a 15 year old girl, but I play one on the internet"?

I'm currently amusing myself by imagining you as a 15 year old girl pretending to be some wildly drunk, cranky old dude.
Gulp. This. Both of this. them. these. those. toes. Take your pick. (but not dude, toot
One certainly wonders. So, who would you vote for if you had to leave your current vote? How certain are you of it? Or aren't you? Town-you certainly does want to buy everyone lunch; how much of this is "lets eliminate everyone and see what happens," how much is based on "willing to vote at the slightest provocation"?
Since you've done all this math, and there's a decent chance there is a t!rb, if it isn't GR, would you encourage them to step up or not? If so, when? why?
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Bookwyrm627: Yay gardening!! :D
Ugh, mosquitoes.
Posted June 22, 2019
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supplementscene: @Gamerager why did you strongly hint you had a role after 2 votes? Now you've claimed you are very likely to be the target on Night 2 but you were beforehand after you hinted. Why would you do that?

I even think it's a good Town move to actually not claim until L1 when you have an important role.

It makes me think you're desperate Mafia rather than Town making some very bad mistakes.

Also your analysis of me as your Scum suspect is the most shallow analysis in the game.

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GameRager: I role blocked you of course(I found your longwinded defensive posts to multiple people on the first game "day" to be a bit suspect so I picked you), and I was going to do so again but at this point I don't know if i'll even be around to do so.

And yes i've put myself at risk, but I don't want the game to lose such an important role and would rather save it this way and put myself at risk via scum focus/targetting than stay silent and get lynched(and cause my fellow town to lose that advantage).

Also if I do get lynched(I hope I don't for the reasons i've stated so far and because I like playing/reading/etc) I suggest the remaining town look closely at my wagon...especially after the reveal I just made.
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supplementscene: If what you are saying is true, did I not look more Town to you after there there were 2 night kills? You supposedly know for a fact I didn't kill night 1. Not that there aren't 2 Mafia players who didn't kill anyway, but you know I wasn't the killer N1

Also you want to block me on night 2 despite supposedly knowing that. Does that make sense?

Who else would you block if I got lynched?
1. I believe I told someone this before: I did it because the wagon was going fairly quickly for me and I didn't want to go to bed/out of the home/etc and come back 18+ hours later to find i'd been lynched. Sometimes I don't check as often as I should with this game(for new posts) and I jumped the gun and claimed because of that, and also to save town the role I provide.

As for my analysis of you: That's just how I play(again).....I have trouble as some do remembering huge amount of min or details and keep tabs on what seems most suspect to me along with some major details of player's posts/interactions/etc.

2. That is all true and you are not my primary role block choice anymore.....as for who i'd pick if not you: It'd likely be someone on my current wagon or maybe Flub for their odd playstyle/etc.



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GameRager: As for believing his claim: Say I did and I was scum, why would I roleblock a claimed vanilla town and not someone else?
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PookaMustard: If you were scum and scene isn't, the most likely scenario in my opinion would be that you use your power on someone else, but claim you used it on scene. This way, you setup scene to look bad, play it safe by claiming you role blocked a vanilla townie, and also advance mafia interests by roleblocking a likely power role. I just have a hard time being convinced that you're indeed honest about what you're saying, as the actions accompanied are...strange to say the least.

=========================

- GameRager: Top of my lynch list. His strange play especially voting a player on the pretense that another player - who he believes to be scummy - thinks they are scum. The roleblocker claim and the fact they claimed to have role blocked scene, who claimed vanilla town, does look very suspect.

Yes, it is 1PM and I need to sleep now. Don't be like me!
1. Good points, and I am trying my best to prove my claims but I don't know how I could prove it anhy more at this point.

As for my actions: I checked into finding my past games but as others said the forum search is trash and I don't remember the games I played in(but I do know how I played in general and that I was town doctor in one). Do I contact a mafia admin user for such info? Is that allowed while playing a current mafia game?

2. The funny thing is others here have stated it would be ok to lynch fellow town for various reasons INCLUDING to read thier wagons the next "day", yet when I use it as a tactic it's suddenly more suspect?

As for scene's claim: I skimmed(to my detriment) and didn't see that when I picked him as a block target last "night".

(Hope you got some sleep, at any rate.....I full well know the effects of not going with enough sleep)


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JoeSapphire: Huh. Does this whole post assume that GameRager is town?
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dedoporno: It's on contrast with that. Everything I wrote (I believe) is what would make most sense if GR is who he says he is - Town blocker. Yet he says there is no point in re-blocking scene.
I don't believe I said that.....just that at this point he is less of a potential block target atm.

9If I DID say that could someone point the post out to me? Thanks)

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trentonlf: I know my activity this game has not been the best and I apologize, but it will not get any better over the next few days. My oldest daughter Grace who just finished the chemo a couple of months ago will be getting married on Sunday so I will be pretty busy until then. Going to be a great weekend :-D

As for the game, I still say GameRager is a bad lynch. I see dedo also hinted I might be a cop but that's not the case, and I wish I could say I was as I would have something to do other than just read and post. No my reason for saying GameRager is a bad lynch is because I believe him. I still say flub is the best choice for lynch, but I sadly don't think that will happen today. If I end up being NK'd look at flub and possibly dedo for the scum team.
Good news to hear and Flub is on my list os possible scum as well so i'll keep an eye out if I survive to the next "day". :)

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GameRager:
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JoeSapphire: Pooka's ready to add the final vote to your lunch. I'm starting to think I would vote for you too. Seeing as you're getting got anyhow, you may as well just tell us honestly now if you are mafia.
I am not mafia/scum.....btw you two seem awfully eager to lynch someone who might be an important town role.....reasons for this eagerness?


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flubbucket: Okay.

I'm going on record that GameRager is scum. I will be mocking with pelvic thrusts when I'm proven right.

Unvote: GameRager
Unvoting makes you look more town yet the reply itself makes you look a bit suspect(to me)......hmm, what to do(on who to block).

Also, why did you choose JoeSapphire so readily in Post 637?

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PookaMustard: This is a thing alright. GameRager is no longer THE wagon, and now there are four others. ..well, I'll do what I said I would earlier and

VOTE GAMERAGER

I"m not really convinced about the flub or Joe wagons, to be honest...
Why vote for me this late into the "day" when others have dropped off the wagon? Why didn't you do it back when I was very close to lynch? Just curious.
Posted June 22, 2019
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trentonlf: I see dedo also hinted I might be a cop
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Bookwyrm627: I think I missed that. Where?
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_59_previously_on_mafia/post589

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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGOG Mafia #59 - Previously on Mafia...(1130 posts)(1130 posts)
(1130 posts)