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Tankman101: I actually have to agree with this. There's a difference between not holding your hand and obfuscating vital information for the sake of being vague, and Falliout 1 is extremely guilty of the latter. It's why I got to Necropolis before quitting because I had no idea what I was supposed to do (I had already wandered around for around an hour searching for things). And it's only by pure luck I managed to get even that far (I was looking for stim-packs, stumbled upon guy with rope).

I'm not looking for a giant flashing arrow, but I would like a nice wide cone that says "Somewhere in this direction" instead of the giant circle that is "MAYBE IT'S SOMEWHERE IN THE VICINITY OF THE EARTH!". Hell, let me ask some guy where I can buy a rope. At least then I won't run around for two IRL hours looking for something I'll never find.

There is a lot of fanboy (Not neccecarilly bad) nostalgia around F1. The industry has had quite a few advancements since then. For one example, the entirely roundabout un-intuitive UI with no explanation whatsoever. I'd rate that thing a 4/Dwarf Fortress.
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drealmer7: Nah, you're just used to being hand-held, used to super-convenience, used to easy. Hundreds of thousands of people have played Fallout 1 with no issues. You're just playing it wrong and not able to handle what it has to offer. You also might want to try reading the manual. It's really the truth.
1. I hate to break it to you, but I'm not used to hand holding. The main games I play are sandbox and RTS, neither of which hand-hold.

2. I shouldn't need to read external sources to get past the first 10 mins.

3. You aren't exactly providing and convincing arguments that the game isn't flawed somewhat, "git gud" isn't cutting it.

I will repeat, why can't I just ask someone if they know where I could find a rope? They don't have to be correct, but it could set me on the right path of "Maybe someone is selling it". You don't have to tell me that option is available, just have it there after you find out you need it.
Post edited June 06, 2015 by Tankman101
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drealmer7: Nah, you're just used to being hand-held, used to super-convenience, used to easy. Hundreds of thousands of people have played Fallout 1 with no issues. You're just playing it wrong and not able to handle what it has to offer. You also might want to try reading the manual. It's really the truth.
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Tankman101: 1. I hate to break it to you, but I'm not used to hand holding. The main games I play are sandbox and RTS, neither of which hand-hold.

2. I shouldn't need to read external sources to get past the first 10 mins.

3. You aren't exactly providing and convincing arguments that the game isn't flawed somewhat, "git gud" isn't cutting it.

I will repeat, why can't I just ask someone if they know where I could find a rope? They don't have to be correct, but it could set me on the right path of "Maybe someone is selling it". You don't have to tell me that option is available, just have it there after you find out you need it.
Doesn't someone in Shady Sands have rope for sale?

At any rate I guess the devs expected people to thoroughly comb Shady sands and grab everything not nailed down, in which case the rope would already be in your possession. Unfortunately it's pretty easy to miss, given its location and size (especially on higher resolutions).
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Tankman101: 1. I hate to break it to you, but I'm not used to hand holding. The main games I play are sandbox and RTS, neither of which hand-hold.

2. I shouldn't need to read external sources to get past the first 10 mins.

3. You aren't exactly providing and convincing arguments that the game isn't flawed somewhat, "git gud" isn't cutting it.

I will repeat, why can't I just ask someone if they know where I could find a rope? They don't have to be correct, but it could set me on the right path of "Maybe someone is selling it". You don't have to tell me that option is available, just have it there after you find out you need it.
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squid830: Doesn't someone in Shady Sands have rope for sale?

At any rate I guess the devs expected people to thoroughly comb Shady sands and grab everything not nailed down, in which case the rope would already be in your possession. Unfortunately it's pretty easy to miss, given its location and size (especially on higher resolutions).
Ye, the guy by the gate sells the rope. Honestly that was the last place I expected it to be.
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Telliks: And of course, I can't just kill the Skulz gang... because then all of the Junktown guards attack me on sight. Even if I don't actually go in blasting and just goad one of the gang members into attacking first... it's apparently my fault.
I am wondering if one of the guards joined in on the fight and one of your party accidentally shot one of them. If I recall correctly, that can make a faction turn hostile meaning you'd need to redo it (since there's no yielding like there is in the elder scrolls games).

I don't think there is a problem with a lack of direction in this game at all. I finished this in the pre-internet days without any guides and I thought it was the best game ever at the time (and I only bought it cos it came bundled with Descent 3 — that game wasn't half as impressive). It's just a little game mechanic/oversight that has got you a bit stuck here (if it is the above mentioned issue at play). I think it's actually the game's linearity that is stopping you dead there, rather than any openness.
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drealmer7: The whole GD point is that you don't know WTF anything is or where anything is or anything because you are a vault-dweller sent into the radiated wastes. Overseer pretty much send you out there like "hah! Good luck making your way/not dying! we're FUCKED" attitude. So, embrace it, play it, be patient, and it will probably grow on you. You will learn the things, discover the things. Make a lot of save games. Explore. Talk to everyone. HAVE FUN!
You are... completely... missing... the point.

Unless you're actually trying to make the argument that this idiot vault dweller, who has a frickin' computer on his arm is incapable of making a note that says "Vinnie wants me to steal Neal's urn."

Concerning the topic of rope that others are talking about, I didn't even find rope in Shady Sands. I couldn't find rope until I got to The Hub and the general store dude happened to be selling some. Though I didn't have much issue with the whole rope thing. At least I knew that I needed rope...

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scowie: I am wondering if one of the guards joined in on the fight and one of your party accidentally shot one of them. If I recall correctly, that can make a faction turn hostile meaning you'd need to redo it (since there's no yielding like there is in the elder scrolls games).
Nope. There are no guards in the Skulz's hideout at the hotel, so there was no way to hit one. If I provoked the Skulz into attacking me first, all of the Junktown guards, including the one outside the hotel, and the ones outside of Killian's shop would engage in combat on sight. Even Lars... the dude that told me to "Bust the Skulz gang." would attack me. So illogical...
Post edited June 06, 2015 by Telliks
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Tankman101: Ye, the guy by the gate sells the rope. Honestly that was the last place I expected it to be.
The first town you find (unless you disobey the Overseer and start exploring random points in the map, you'll find Shady Sands after going to Vault 15, any one will see the giant green dot) is the last place you expected to find a rope?

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scowie: I don't think there is a problem with a lack of direction in this game at all. I finished this in the pre-internet days without any guides and I thought it was the best game ever at the time (and I only bought it cos it came bundled with Descent 3 — that game wasn't half as impressive). It's just a little game mechanic/oversight that has got you a bit stuck here (if it is the above mentioned issue at play). I think it's actually the game's linearity that is stopping you dead there, rather than any openness.
Exactly, if you are capable of finishing the game without guides, why he can't?
And like you said, it's not a big deal, I think he's exaggerating on purpose.
Some people like drama.
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Telliks: You are... completely... missing... the point.
The problem is that the point you think you're making is not the point you're actually making.
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almabrds: Exactly, if you are capable of finishing the game without guides, why he can't?
And like you said, it's not a big deal, I think he's exaggerating on purpose.
Some people like drama.
Who said I can't?

Assumptions make you look stupid.

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UniversalWolf: The problem is that the point you think you're making is not the point you're actually making.
Hahaha WOW. What a load of shit.
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Telliks: Who said I can't?
It's obvious to everyone, you suck at this game. :-)
Congrats on the trololo topic, I hope you enjoyed the attention while it lasted, because from now on I'll just ignore every post you make.
Post edited June 07, 2015 by almabrds
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Telliks: Who said I can't?
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almabrds: It's obvious to everyone, you suck at this game. :-)
Congrats on the trololo topic, I hope you enjoyed the attention while it lasted, because from now on I'll just ignore every post you make.
OH NO! almabrds is going to ignore me! Whatever will I do!? PLEASE NOTICE ME, SENPAI!

rofl

lol at going through and downvoting literally all of my posts, too. How incredibly incredibly mature and totally not petty. /sarcasm
Post edited June 07, 2015 by Telliks
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Tankman101: Ye, the guy by the gate sells the rope. Honestly that was the last place I expected it to be.
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almabrds: The first town you find (unless you disobey the Overseer and start exploring random points in the map, you'll find Shady Sands after going to Vault 15, any one will see the giant green dot) is the last place you expected to find a rope?
I didn't expect it to be on randy random the gate guard. Let alone that randy random would be a shop owner.
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drealmer7: Nah, you're just used to being hand-held, used to super-convenience, used to easy. Hundreds of thousands of people have played Fallout 1 with no issues. You're just playing it wrong and not able to handle what it has to offer. You also might want to try reading the manual. It's really the truth.
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Tankman101: 1. I hate to break it to you, but I'm not used to hand holding. The main games I play are sandbox and RTS, neither of which hand-hold.

2. I shouldn't need to read external sources to get past the first 10 mins.

3. You aren't exactly providing and convincing arguments that the game isn't flawed somewhat, "git gud" isn't cutting it.

I will repeat, why can't I just ask someone if they know where I could find a rope? They don't have to be correct, but it could set me on the right path of "Maybe someone is selling it". You don't have to tell me that option is available, just have it there after you find out you need it.
The manual isn't an external source. It is source material. I didn't say the game was perfection, most games have flaws. Fallout's flaws are inventory management, companion management, and ummm, that might be it for me. I can understand it is hard to get a feel for or get used to how everything operates, that is true for most innovative games, a lot of older games, and life in general. Either be okay with a learning curve/getting used to the feel of something you aren't used to, or stick to the same old predicable cookie-cutter crap you're used to and don't break from your comfort zone, that is really the dilemma here I think.

Chill about the damn rope, play the game and you'll find plenty of rope. Don't be so narrow-sighted, just play the game. Explore. Discover. Enjoy. Die, most likely a lot. Enjoy some more.
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squid830: Doesn't someone in Shady Sands have rope for sale?
Pretty sure the guy at the entrance does. I feel like I always have 3 ropes by the time I'm in Shady Sands, so...*shrug.*
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almabrds: The first town you find (unless you disobey the Overseer and start exploring random points in the map, you'll find Shady Sands after going to Vault 15, any one will see the giant green dot) is the last place you expected to find a rope?
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Tankman101: I didn't expect it to be on randy random the gate guard. Let alone that randy random would be a shop owner.
That's not his name. Maybe if you just didn't think everyone around you was some insignificant dope and actually talked to them, you'd discover that you aren't the center of the universe, yet. I suggest using your cursor and letting it pause over everything you see, it will tell you lots. Especially use it on people so you can see who the hell they are and not just assume because they don't have fancy clothes and a big desk and an arrow pointing down at their head from the heavens that they might actually have something to contribute to the game. I mean: DON'T MISS LENNY!
Post edited June 09, 2015 by drealmer7
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Telliks: ....
Ugh, don't let all the crap get you down. None of this needs to be contentious. It can be a little hard to get into and understand, really. The thing is you've just got to have a little patience and take your time with it. If you're not willing to do that, then that is another issue all together. You don't have to read the entire manual, but do look it over a bit and refer to it when you need to figure something out or aren't sure what does what or whatever. Spend a good amount of time on the character creation screen, learn about the attributes and perks and skills. First thing you should really decide is what kind of weapon you want to specialize in. For Fallout 1+2, I think energy weapons are the way to go, but pick one and stick with it. Maybe put a little in small guns to start so you don't totally suck until you find your specialized weapon. Don't be afraid to save and reload and try again. Save a lot. Use you knife on the rats in the beginning to save ammo and to learn how the intricacies of combat work. Don't be afraid to ask for more help if you need it /still want it.
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drealmer7: The whole GD point is that you don't know WTF anything is or where anything is or anything because you are a vault-dweller sent into the radiated wastes. Overseer pretty much send you out there like "hah! Good luck making your way/not dying! we're FUCKED" attitude. So, embrace it, play it, be patient, and it will probably grow on you. You will learn the things, discover the things. Make a lot of save games. Explore. Talk to everyone. HAVE FUN!
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Telliks: You are... completely... missing... the point.

Unless you're actually trying to make the argument that this idiot vault dweller, who has a frickin' computer on his arm is incapable of making a note that says "Vinnie wants me to steal Neal's urn."

Concerning the topic of rope that others are talking about, I didn't even find rope in Shady Sands. I couldn't find rope until I got to The Hub and the general store dude happened to be selling some. Though I didn't have much issue with the whole rope thing. At least I knew that I needed rope...

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scowie: I am wondering if one of the guards joined in on the fight and one of your party accidentally shot one of them. If I recall correctly, that can make a faction turn hostile meaning you'd need to redo it (since there's no yielding like there is in the elder scrolls games).
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Telliks: Nope. There are no guards in the Skulz's hideout at the hotel, so there was no way to hit one. If I provoked the Skulz into attacking me first, all of the Junktown guards, including the one outside the hotel, and the ones outside of Killian's shop would engage in combat on sight. Even Lars... the dude that told me to "Bust the Skulz gang." would attack me. So illogical...
I have the answer to both of your problems:
1: If you need to keep notes of what you have been told use a pencil and paper, that is what people used to do as many games did not have built-in journal systems. There is no use whining about it.
2: Did you make sure that you didn't have a weapon equipped? I was attacked on sight the first time I went there and realized I had my weapon equipped, the guards seem to just attack if you have it out.

I can't really offer a solution for the Rope, when I first got to Vault 15 I remembered seeing rope in the guy at the gate's barter window and went back to get it.
Post edited June 10, 2015 by Tiephoone
The first time I played Fallout, I couldn't figure out how to bust the gang, either. So I decided it wasn't worth the trouble and kept looking for the water chip. Sure, the game could give you a little bit better direction, but for a side quest like that, it's not worth complaining about. (By the way, "first time" was about 2012.)