I just picked up X3: Terran War Pack. I'm all tingly. But also quite confused.

First, I was surprised that X3:TC and X3:AP are apparently two different games. As the wikipedia article calls AP an "add-on" to TC, I expected simply to play AP and get the whole continuous experience, like integrated add-ons usually do. Now I'm staring at two launch icons, and though clearly TC comes chronologically first, I"m wondering if I'm supposed to just skip it (then why install the icon...) and go straight to AP to get both at once. Or, am I supposed to pour a ton of hours and effort into TC and eventually declare it "beaten" (once I've had enough of it) and then start all over again from scratch in AP? Or, are my saved games carried over to AP, as usually happens with an "add-on".

Can anyone help me to understand it better than threads here, at egosoft, and even wikipedia have been able to do? I'm guessing it's a case of "it's a question so old and well-known that no one talks about it", but that leaves out the noobs like me.

...And that's not mentioning the official bonus packs. I assume I will use them since they have been deemed "official", however the versions are older than my GOG installers. Will that be a problem?

......Oh, and the extra files GOG supplies -- what are they about? The patch file 3.2D doesn't execute because it says my installation is newer than the patch. So why provide it? (I'm guessing maybe for older, in-progress games?) And the other file, the mod support patch -- is this needed to run any mods (including the bonus packs), now, in the past, or ever? Because that doesn't install either, for the same reason -- installation is newer.

Really confusing intro to X, this is.

Thanks for any help!

Check out this thread here, should help explain quite a bit I think...any other questions, just hit us up :)

I was thinking we have had this discussion before too but I will help answer questions you might still have left after reading Zoltan's linked thread. Just let me sleep first z z z

Checking it out. Thanks!

I looked into this game, installed it, the thing is too complex to figure out it seems to me, like it really really badly needed a tutorial and not a pdf to stop you in your tracks and open a pdf and go back and forth, that is distracting and ineffective.

I read some of the stuff from the link of the link that was posted, decided to try it again myself..
got hit by debris and destroyed before i could even dock.. never even saw what hit me.. I lasted less than 5 minutes and never once even fired a shot.

This is a really aggravating game.

They say it takes about 20 hours to learn to play this, whose really gonna put that into something like this?
Seems you must be really really bored, or have no life, or both to be willing to take the time to learn to play this title.
no offense, but really..

can pick up most any game and learn it in a fraction of that.
the complexity kills this title really, it just isn't fun, and it is because of the learning curve and lack of in-game tutorials.
how does that help the games future?
it's easy to see how it limits it.

and what is the serial key for?
just multiplayer?
not like I will ever need it so not really important.

time is the only real thing we have, this game is a extreme waste of that.

how did you fare dwgog? did you figure it out?
or quit like a sane person does?

This is very, very recognizable. I started the game back in October, and yup, my first half dozen game starts ended like that.

Honestly, I've come to see it as a big plus of the game. You're being treated as a capable human being, who doesn't need hand-holding, and can figure it all out. And eventually you can, and that gives a real sense of accomplishment.

(That's not to say the game is perfect in every way. There's really annoying bugs and things which they really should've improved because the player experience just sucks. But this particular one, on retrospect...? This one is one I'm glad of.) Luckily those 20 hours aren't continuous, and aren't the first 20 hours of the game.
After putting in 1-2 hours, you should be able to fly around usefully, and have some idea of what your goals are. And then over the next day of flying, you'll probably spend another 4-5 hours "learning" about other features, and how to do things more effectively.
And after a week of flying, you'll have spent some more hours learning about the really advanced features for stuff which costs 100-1000x as many credits as you currently have available.

So yeah, by the time you've finished the game, you might have spent 20 hours just on learning how specific things work. But it's only the first 1-2 hours which really hamper you.


A lot of players of this game keep game diaries to chronicle how they're doing. I know that I myself spent some time writing about exactly those issues you're currently encountering in the opening post of mine: YAXTCD (Yet Another X3: Terran Conflict Diary). That might be useful to read to get a bit of a feel for things? (Don't read beyond the opening post though, because: spoilers!)

One specific tip for docking, if you're doing that manually rather than through the docking computer: Your speed needs to be relatively low to safely dock. If you see red downward triangles in the middle of your HUD, your speed is too high.

Well, that's a much better outlook than saying about 20 hours, at least there is some hope in it.
actually I had already looked up autodocking previous to the start, and had that happen using autodock.

Personally, I like games like this, but not this one..
rebel galaxy was fun, though redundant and limited..
starpoint gemini was the same though still fun..

We need something similar with a procedurely randomized universe.
Thats the game I am looking for, but not with a 20 hour learning cycle..
That is WHY I play stuff like the previous mentioned games, jump in the cockpit and go, can learn the game in an hour, but they all seem to end up the same, steal any ship that isn't bolted down and preferably the largest to keep it from firing on you as much as possible while wiping up smaller foes.

Essentially you go looking for a job as a trooper and end up as a glorified repoman in space.. every time.
But that in itself is naval combat, and this is that.. so I shouldn't expect more I guess.

Kind of sounds like you've perhaps made up your mind about X3, but if you're still game, this guy gives a great video tutorial on starting a game of X3TC. You can follow it, and kind of play along with him, or just use what you want/need from it to help yourself get the gist of how the game works, and what you should be doing, and/or thinking about. Anyway, take a look at them if you like.....perhaps you'll end up finding you like the game after all (and perhaps not....it's definitely not for everybody, but if you love space games as it seems you do, it might be worth checking out that guys tutorial start)

Yes, X universe is for people who are not afraid of figuring out things and working around some rough edges to eventually enjoy game that is very much "make your own fun" where narrative is more introduction to universe than set path, and is rather start than end of the sandbox game.

Well, have only played X2 and must say, the user interface of it was an atrocity. But that not stopped me to spend best part of a year with it.

(There will be a day I will fire up X3 (and/or X4 eventually) but doubt it will happen anytime soon though...)

Well, but that's the whole point..
Yes I love these types of games, but not this particular game..

Really simple reason, if I had 20 hours to LEARN to play a GAME, I would look for something REAL instead.
If I wasn't gonna try it and hoping to enjoy it, I would have never bought it..
If I wanted to watch someone else play.. I would have bought it for someone else.
(Imagine where the game industry would be if we only bought games for others, no one would buy)

Even if the game wasn't quite so hard, and it took 2 hours of learning to be able to play, I still wouldn't do it, is a waste of time.

I am sitting here this morning with volume 10 of the Zohar open, and I gotta tell you, it is 1000 times deeper, and ten times as hard, but.. all I gotta do is open the cover.

When you stop and consider that, even the hardest of biblical texts is more engaging than this game in that sense, just open the book and read and you are part of it, from the first moment on.

If you have mastered this game, you shoulda considered college instead maybe. The X universe is for people who are so lost that they have way too much time on their hands.
It may even be fair to say the X Universe is for people who are afraid of the real world, it's a great escape, not that I am any different mind you, but I am not trying to fool myself.

You know what we see of time?
only a shadow, it trails out from behind us.
that's all you can see of time really, a shadow.

they say when the world that is to come dawns there will be no darkness.
without darkness there is no time, for there is no shadow.

times almost up.
http://epithany.org/70th_week.jpg << (The real wonder of the heavens, Revelations 12)

and here we are, lost in space..

Well, it probably unwise to argue with a troll, it not clear why you ever play any games at all...

The only thing I can do is share my own vision for your consideration, without pretending it is right for you or at all, just in hope you may understand that not all think the same exact way as you.

If I want entertainment for 1.5~3 hours I take a movie.
If I want entertainment for 4-8 hours I find a book (I enjoy reading and yes, that's about what it takes for average 500 pages book, oftentimes taken in one streak).

When I look for a computer game I expect a world I can research for 200+ hours, living with it for months, and return to it again for years and even decades. I don't own (and principally despise) consoles and only buy no more than 2 to 4 games a year, but have over a dozen games installed at all times that I reply repeatedly (most of that collection are grand strategy). In that context, two or even 20 hour learning curve isn't significant at all, it might even be the major point of the fun. Yes, I have fun learning useless things.

I understand there is quite popular and radically different approach where games are "beaten" once and changed rapidly, I can even see the appeal of the "visual novel" or "interactive movie" style games that approach promotes.

Now, this particular series of games... It really understandable how they may be lost for quick game style gamer, and I would agree there are design decisions and flaws that are indeed problematic not only (but especially) for those players but for everyone. However, I believe, this game is more akin to grand strategy games in appeal, and that mitigate the flaws somewhat.

Yes, there clearly element of escapism, and yes, that's the exact point of it. But isn't that so with all games in general, as well most movies and books? Sure, there's some gradation from good history book to The Sims or Second Life and X are quite to the far end of it, won't deny that.

Finally, there nothing wrong with you if you do not like particular work of art, nor does it is anything wrong with people who admire it, nor is either if that's the other way around. Different works of art (computer games including) are created by very different people for very different people.And that's great, the world would be incredibly boring place if all were the same.

sure, but do you expect to have to be "trained" 8 hours to play?
get real..

you aren't considering whats being said..
are you sure your not trolling but doing such really?

if the comment is about the itrollirl.com thing, i actually did buy that as a domain, to talk about this epidemic we seem to have. If your judging on not understanding, that is trolling.

I forgot to followup, sorry. My reminders reminded me! Haha :)
I stuck with it and have figured quite a bit of it out. Some bad, some good.
Overall, I do enjoy playing it. And I do give it quite a bit of my gaming time. It -is- addictive; it does draw you in and hold you. I have a fleet of I think about 23 ships so far, if that's any indication. All small-ish ships, nothing huge yet. I have a reliable ore route I constantly run in the background, camping vendors, (edit: can't forget my taxi!), and my first wing experience recently (due to starting the Terran plot).

There are good things about the game: enjoyability in general; combat; the joy of forcing an enemy to abandon ship and then claiming what's left as my own; growing your possessions list and rankings and threat-level...
And there are bad things about the game: redundancy of zones that are basically skyboxes and some stations thrown in, no true spaceflight model allowing me to drift while firing sideways (pretty major deficiency), the terribly embarrassing autopilot, the really bad command UI. Regarding the last, I've read a review that said something to the effect of, "it's like the devs have never played a modern game in their lives then went out and said let's design X to have the most cumbersome menu-based control system ever!" and that review was, to large effect, correct. But I've also read a review that said to the effect of, "why do we keep playing this broken game? because it's fun."

They're both pretty spot-on.

ahh geez, and I had hope that you had the sense to quit before you started, good that you figured it out though.
i couldn't see it after being hit by an asteroid or whatever it was trying to dock in training, and of course someone else (gogtrial) said "i remember that, happened to me 6 times in a row", that was very tell tale.

you say that cause they don't realize that time is all anyone has.
and at this point it is in short supply.

no ones thinking right.

even for the idea of game development, the big factor is always that it reaches the most players, that's how titles survive and thrive and grow, this game shoots itself in the foot that way and that's why so few play it, this is why it is pretty much done too.

its niche is not lucrative really, only appeals to a small group of people and even then is so difficult it weeds those into two groups, those with too much time on their hand and too few priorities and those that are too realistically centered to get into it.

it's the kind of game a developer develops to bankrupt the company in the end after scraping every penny they can up first, but because it is done through "debt notes" we will all be paying for it for the next 1000 years.

enjoy.

time is to precious.
and ignorance is bliss.

I find more entertainment in a volume of the Zohar personally, that's a good investment in time..
I am currently on volume 10.

Unlike Enneagon, I buy games to play and i want to get into them then and there, but when I am not playing games, I like to read.
Enneagon buys a game and expects 200 hours from it, I buy a book (either philosophy, religion or history), digest it mentally and use it a lifetime instead, now which is the better investment?
One wastes 200 hours of your life, the other improves the rest of your life.

That's my honest opinion of the whole thing, if i have to study how to play, ill study something real instead, and forget the game, anyone who would do otherwise is obviously not thinking right and or are uninspired as one could be.

Not that specific thing. "Lasting less than 5 minutes without ever firing a shot" (with some hyperbole thrown in). Each time, I learned something new and crucial, and around the 7th time I was progressing meaningfully and successfully docking in between to save my progress.

That's such a good point, and I hope you realize how very, very grateful we are that you are willing to once more expend some of your super-valuable time to keep informing us on how wrong we are to consider it worthwhile investing some of ours into enjoying this game. Particularly since this particular game is apparently going to singlehandedly destroy the economy due to not enough people playing it??? (That sounds pretty scary, actually! Please tell us more about this so we can prevent it from happening! I don't want to be paying for things for 1000 years when time is in such short supply. Could we perhaps prevent it from happening by forcing more people to play and enjoy this game?!)