Non-casters (Fighter, Rogue, Bard, Gadgeteer): Strength, Dexterity, Speed, Senses. This build works well for a variety of characters: Melee only, ranged only, or both. Vitality obviously becomes the most important stat afterwards.

Specialist casters (Priest, Alchemist, Psionic, Mage): Intelligence, Piety, Speed, Senses. I would never create another Psionic and Mage, from my last playthrough (why do they get so heavily penalized in terms of hit points and armor selection?) At least the Priest and Alchemist get decent armor, like the Bishop and Rogue. Regardless, I find specialist casters to be way too limited, and they are usually too fragile for flank combat, let alone frontline combat. Thus, they focus on stats that make a caster great (protected by tougher characters, of course).

Hybrids (Lord, Valkyrie, Ranger, Ninja, Monk, Samurai): Strength, Dexterity, Speed, Senses, same as the non-casters. The reason is that they level slower than the specialists, and suffer a -4 caster level penalty, making Powercast possibly pointless.

Elite (Bishop): Strength, Intelligence, Speed, Senses. Piety becomes much less important for a Bishop, who potentially has access to all 101 spells in the game (though they probably won't get them all, they are guaranteed to get most). This gives them Powerstrike, Powercast, SnakeSpeed, and Eagle Eye, ensuring that they are decent at all forms of combat.

Generally I agree with this overall.

Worth pointing out that SPD is really great for multiple reasons... not only does it help you attack first but a really high SPD helps your AC and gives extra attacks.

But it doesn't matter if your SPD score comes from native ability or a buff spell. So if you have the ability to cast a power 7 Haste spell in the first round of combat, then you can get away with a SPD of 55 for most characters. Haste will then add +70 and your SPD will be 125, the maximum possible.

Being able to cast a power 7 Haste on round one could mean a Bishop or Psionic, or maybe a Monk, but most likely a Bard, who can get the Rousing Drums fairly early if you want to.

The exception for me would be my primary casters (I like to have two Bishops) who may need to cast Element Shield or Soul Shield on the first round. That really needs to happen before the enemy goes, so I want to get Snake Speed on those guys. But to me, Snake Speed is really only for that, so I don't really need it on anyone else.

Only needing 55 in SPD frees up a lot of points that can be used elsewhere, so for me this is really worth it.

Speed helps everybody: It gives melee and ranged attackers more swings and attacks, gives Initiative, and grants SnakeSpeed upon max.

Here is where the rub comes in. "Free" Speed from the Bard is assuming that they cast at max power level 7. The Bard sometimes casts their Rousing Drums at power level 3 or so. This is also assuming that they are not underwater (Fire spells don't work here).

Getting native Speed (along with Senses) to 100 guarantees that your characters will act first. Snakespeed unlocked will automatically grant +1 to Initiative (even at skill 0). Every 10 points past that grants +1 Initiative.

What else are you going to spend your non-Speed points in? My level 32 Human Fighter has base 100 Strength/Dexterity/Speed/Senses, 56 Vitality, and 55 Intelligence and Piety.

My Fighter (or any character, really) isn't going to reach that level.
(I consider anything past level 25 or so beyond the normal parameters of the game; you're not going to reach those levels on a typical playthrough.) Unless you have a non-Powercast Psionic user (like a typical Monk build), 55 isn't the exact amount you need.

Bards, as mentioned, don't reliably get PL7, even at high level with 110 Music (the highest legitimately possible).

Those with Power Cast will actually provide *more* than 70 Speed with PL7 Haste, and therefore you don't need the full 55.

There are a few areas where going past level 30 seems to be normal, such as SE Wilderness (all those high level, high HP Swallowers), Mt. Gigas (the unexplored section), the Sea Caves, and of course, the Mountain Wilderness, with those level 34 Molten Scorchers and level 30ish Crag and Mountain Sprites.

Trying to save points by not investing in Speed doesn't make sense on a class like the Fighter. The W8 community all seems to agree on maxing Strength, Dexterity, and Senses. All those points not spent on Speed have to go into another stat. Intelligence and Piety are almost worthless on a Fighter, and Vitality seems like overkill on a class that really doesn't need the hit points.

Using Haste to generate temporary Speed increases has a few flaws:

1. Using a Bard to do it isn't reliable. They seem to randomly cast it from power levels 1.-7.

2. Even if using a full caster to do it, they are wasting round 1. This is an opportunity cost that could have been used to cast something else.

3. It doesn't work underwater (no fire spell does).

4. It doesn't take effect until Round 2. During Round 1, all movement queues are pre-determined, and Haste won't change that.

From what I have read, a game with a 6-person party usually ends around level 23-25 or so. I agree that it can be fun to over-level, but since the level of random monsters appearing in an area is based on your level bracket (i.e. avg. party level / 5) it's not really necessary to do so.

I do intend to get my bishops to level 28 though on my current playthrough since that is the earliest they can get all the spells with the lower level spell picks I have used (4 each). Since these stats all affect your chance to hit I agree. STR doesn't affect ranged chance to hit but it does affect damage for non-modern weapons. SEN is less important than the first two but also affects initiative. Well, I haven't bothered with a pure fighter since my first play tbh. They deal lots of damage, but that's kind of all they do. And having a big damage dominator in the party can make it harder to train skills on your other guys if the fighter kills everything.

I agree that 100 INT is useless on anyone not a spellcaster.

100 VIT is kind of overkill on a fighter, but then so is 100 SPD. Amusingly, if you went for VIT instead of SPD for your whole party this would be pretty interesting since the fights would take way longer... but that's okay because you can survive them. Meanwhile you have more chances to train stuff.

Having a 100 VIT tank character can also be really good when you need someone who can block enemies and soak up damage when your other guys are in trouble. You can put just him in your front rank for a while if you are in a narrow space.

PIE is kind of useless for a Fighter as you level up, but when you get to 100 the Iron Will skill is great for a fighter (or any non-caster) since they don't get resistance bonus from the realm skills. It's pretty reliable. In my current game my level 15 bard gets power 7 about 80% of the time.

It may be a factor of the relationship of your music skill to the minimum skill needed to operate the instrument. But honestly Music is one of the easiest skills to powertrain. I always end up with a Music of at least 50 by the time I leave the monastery, and I could go higher if I didn't get bored. I'm always at least 80 by the time I leave Arnika around level 8 or 9, but with the Viola D'Amore you could get all the way to 100 in Arnika if you wanted. FYI the Rousing Drums require a Music of 45 and a bard level of 8. My bard actually spent the first level as a Fighter so she is really a level 14 bard. She has a skill in the mid-90s without Puck's Cap.

It is also possible that part of the effect is based on the relative level of the bard compared to the minimum level of the instrument. But with a minimum level of 8 Rousing Drums is mastered fairly early.

Honestly, I have never seen a bardic instrument create a spell effect that was power 1. My spell casters cast spells at low level most fights just to extend my skill training, and the bardic instruments are always much more effective. This might happen if you had a low music skill, but with so few necessary skills for your bard I'm not sure why you wouldn't invest in Music.

This might not be the case with the instruments with a really high minimum Music level, but since those are mostly offensive ones I don't use them much. By the time you get them the resistances of monsters is so high that I mostly use party buffs and status effects at that point. I'm pretty sure there's no Power Cast effect for bardic instruments. Well, assuming you aren't using Rousing Drums, this is only really an issue if you needed to get both Soul Shield and Element Shield up in round 1. If you know the monsters it's rare that you need both.

It's okay if you don't immediately disable all the monsters. Having a combat go longer just means more chances to train skills.

Once you have X-Ray going you can often surprise the monsters, so you will get a round to do something without interference. Only a very small part of the game is underwater. I would not spend points on making sure they are good at that one part at the cost of other things. If by "movement queues" you mean initiative order, FYI initiative is re-rolled every round. Even without buffing your SPD on round one things will go in a different order depending on initiative roll. Interesting! I did not notice this, and I thought +70 was the max. But then if you already had a SPD of 55 I suppose you would never notice if you got +80.

Ok, I am going to assume that you both are trying to 100% the game. There are plenty of areas where being level 30-35 is expected. There are treasure chests which have level sensors (best be level 31+).

That's not where I'm going here. The point is to get tough in Arnika, so that you can keep all friendlies alive. From here, about level 30-35, you can leave Arnika.

You obviously want to keep your party alive, as well as all Friendlies (Brotherhood of the Ascension, Higardi, Mook, Trynnie, Umpani, T'Rang).

The Rapax, there is nothing that you can do early (there is a sexy quest you can do with Al-Sedexus, which will make you Friendly with both the Rapax Common and Rapax Templar).

The Rattkin: Slaughter them all. They are all scum.

Not quite accurate. It actually uses the actual average level without putting it into a bracket.

Case in point: The Mine Tunnels. At level 8, you're fighting a lot of Mosquitos, which aren't that dangerous. At level 9, you're fighting Tanto Wasps instead, which are much stronger, and therefore much more dangerous. This area is much easier at level 8 than level 9. I've read that STR does affect ranged hit chance, but only by half the amount, and not for Modern Weapons. Drawbacks:
* You have to fight for longer. Since you can't save during fights, this means that you have to go longer without a chance to save, and therefore need to set aside a longer block of time to play, which can be an issue if you have a busy schedule.
* Longer fights mean you're more likely to get unlucky and have, say, some of your party members instantly killed, and the reload costs more progress. (Remember, VIT only protects against hit point damage, not other things that can happen.) If you want to keep all friendlies alive, that includes the Rattkin. So, better get the funds for the Astral Dominae. (One strategy: Farm Rapax on the main level of the castle while they're still friendly, but do so some distance away from Ferro. It's a decent method that doesn't require any specific skill to work.)

The 4 R's:

Robots: Not a race, but creations. All are hostile except RFS-81, which you should repair, then let him sit there in his hut, as I dislike NPCs, with their imperfect stats.

Rynjin: A native race to Dominus, hostile to everybody. No way to be friendly with them, kill them all on sight, just like monsters.

Rapax: Another native race to Dominus, hostile to everybody. The Rapax Common faction is hostile right away, while the Rapax Templar faction is neutral. They can both be made friendly with Al-Sedexus' blessing.

Rattkin Common: They are set to neutral right away, and can't be made friendly with the party. Therefore, you don't need to keep them alive. They are hostile after doing the Rattkin Breeders quest.

Rattkin Razuka: (Rattus Rattus, Milano Calzone, Don Barlone). This faction starts out friendly, and includes only 3 members, and usually will result in you whacking Rattus first, so that Milano and the Don can be taken out separately (I did this in my last party). However, in this last party, I ignored Rattus, and went straight for the tree-tops.

If you kill Rattus, are Milano and the Don hostile to you when you meet them?

Yes.

(I actually did that on my most recent playthrough; I will not be doing that on the next.)

I normally talk to him so I can get the zip gun, which isn't great but is a decent intro modern weapon. I sneak down the road to see him before I hit Arnika to get it early. So it has never occurred to me to kill him and he disappears after your first encounter.

Kinda weird that you never see him again though. They could have put him in the rat tree or something.

They are 3 of the same; Connected at the hip, as it was.

Whacking 1 will make the other 2 angry; You might as well take them all out. You've exterminated an evil mafia faction, cleared out the 6th Bough for the Trynnie, and gotten the Jazeraint Tunic, Astral Dominae, and 80% chance at Cane of Corpus for yourself.