The way I see it Wizardry 8 is as ingenious as it is because it is very well thought through and quite challenging. It is challenging when you start playing with your six heroes initially, it keeps up the challenges constantly while you are learning the game.

From the very first decisive encounter, the crabs at the monastery beach, till you explored the whole world: it introduces it's rules extremely well and allows for a myriad of different approaches.
Ultimately, if you look for challenges, the standard normal 6-character party becomes less appealing. Whenever you try something new, something you don't know how to master, you learn new stuff about the game. Even after years of playing. For me that's the most outstanding quality in Wizardry 8. Then again it is just my oppinion and I can't fault anybody for finding a different way to unlock this brilliant games' long term fun.

I came to Solos as if to a "logical conclusion" - which does not need to be the case for everybody else of course. Thus I ask you: what is it you perceive as Wizardry's most outstanding quality?

There are some issues with solos.

One is that you don't get to experience the variety of abilities the game has to offer, not to mention that some abilitites (Rest All, Heal All, Resurrection) become useless.

Another is that being a little unlucky can spell game over.

Also, the game's auto-scaling enemies are not balanced with a solo character in mind; you will be fighting high level enemies before you're ready for them. (I often encounter this with a full party.)

Another thing: If you play a class with Stealth, eventually enemies become unable to detect you and will do nothing but defend, and that's no fun.

Personally, what I am most interested, as far as going beyond "normal" play, is glitches; it's fun going out of bounds in the Upper Monastery, and I am wondering if there are any other places you can do that. (One warning: If going glitch hunting, you do *not* want to play Iron Man, unless you are hunting for an Iron Man only glitch.)

Indeed being a little unlucky is punished harshly at times, which can be frustrating. In fact I'd say it kind of ruins Iron Man. From tiny details deciding everything over Instant Death effects to falling through solid ground. The obvious ways to circumvent (copying saves) or "half-circumvent" Iron Man (pressing ESC in fights) don't really help its cause either. It's kind of sad.
Then again the tiny details often work both ways and can end up being the key to victory. I guess one has to like that to enjoy Solos.

The useless spells are not an issue though. Heal All can be useful even (the Amulet of Healing allows to heal others, e.g. Elementals, whereas a healing Potion doesn't). Also Divinity deserves the nerf. In any case solos empower many other things that usually end up being pointless - like forcing locks. The background of usually disregarded mediocrity in spells and items is forced up front way more. It contrasts the classes decisively if you have to deal with their respective weaknesses and need to utilize their every strength to cope with the difficulty. For instance I never truly realized just how good Divinity is until I solo'd. Usually Superman is cast on the Fighter and has him shine rather than the Priest. Not in a solo though. The qualities of a Priest benefit a Priest: no way one could mistake the power of Superman for that of the Berserk attack option. Magic Screen doesn't just happen to always be there either: you'll treasure any Magic Screen scroll you come accross. That's part of the challenge... While I can't say that you'd "have to" enjoy it I can say that there'll always be a way ;) I never did that. Is that Upper Monastery glitch reasonably easy to find once you start looking? I think I'll give it a shot :)

Thank you for your answer!

I understand what you're saying, but "Solo" is not the only solution (it is one though). I have been fooling around with different party sizes and compositions, which don't follow the usual recommendations.

I've just finished the game with my 4-character party consisting of the four specialized casters only, and right now I'm experimenting with a 3-character party which has only the 3 stealth characters (which also means no Priest and Mage for their important buffs). I'm also thinking about certain 2-character parties (like Samurai + Lord, or Hobbit-Ninja + Faerie-Bishop/Ninja), or also various dedicated ranged parties (stuff like 2x Ranger, 2x Gadgeteer, Ninja, Bishop), which I haven't done before.

It is true what dtgreene says, that the game isn't really designed for smaller parties or even solo parties. But that's part of the challange: Those balance issues, especially in the early game. Many say Arnika Road is the toughest part of the game. Well, for certain parties (and especially small ones), I really think the Monastery is way tougher. But that's great - for different parties different elements of the games are easy or very tough, which can even come down to basic stuff like how to open locks (for my imagined Samurai/Lord party, this could become an issue).

I don't see that being a big issue with that party, as you do have some options:

For the lock in the monastery, the 10% from Posseur's Cap should be enough, and you can try using Knock Picks if that is not enough.

Later on, the Thieves' Buckler will allow you to get 20% Locks and Traps, and that party has access to Knock Knock as a spell.

One other party idea, if you don't mind not having the portal spells, is Fighter/Rogue/Bard/Gadgeteer. Basically, the party can't cast spells normally, so things could get tricky. Healing may be a problem before level 11, for example, and you don't have the ability to make potions (though I believe you can make money through Doubleshot Crossbows). It is easy to find; just go out the left door of the monastery exit. If you go in the corner, you will go through the door. Have fun, but be prepared to get crushed!

Incidentally, if you speedrun the game (which could be another interesting way of challenging yourself), I think this does give you a minor timesave, as it allows you to avoid having to open the door.

Well, solos ARE popular, i did ~30 solo runs through vanilla and all english mods that i know,
mostly in self imposed IM mode to increase the challenge and the fun,
you cant compare winning the game with reload to the satisfaction you get from an IM run,
there a hard random encounter can give you more than the final battle at CC if you know that you reloaded at some point.


@dtgreene
i think you can also avoid the teleporter from trynton to ATR if you hug the wall to the right.
There is also a wall glitch that allows to circumvent the door in Kunars shop,
probably a better boost for a speedrun than the 0.5 sec for the upper monastery exit;)
btw what time do you estimate for an IM speedrun through the unmodified game(but incl the wiz8fast.exe)?

I used to do solo runs in WIzardy 8 a lot, but I rarely ever finished them. The problem I generally ran into wasn't that the game was getting too hard or I was having quality of life issues, but rather that the game is based around having a party with different skillsets and options, and playing a single character all the time gets kinda boring. For the earlier games it's even more pronounced.

So I do smaller parties instead, normally 3-4 characters. Valkyrie-Samurai-Ninja and Fighter-Rogue-Bishop were quite good, and virtually any 4-character group can work. I even did a full run through all of 6, 7, and 8 with a Lord and Ranger duo.

Of interest, I just got into the Rapax Castle without having to fight a major battle in the courtyard. The trick is to use ranged weapons against the Rapax before entering the area where you fight everything at once, and after killing some enemies in smaller battles, I managed to sneak in to the castle.

Also, take a look at the attached screen shot. In particular, take a look at the monster's HP, Stamina, and Conditions. Notice anything unusual?

Okay I went out of the Monastery bounds now. Actually an easy exploit: one could just shoot opponents all over the place w/o any retaliation. Then again that's so obvious an exploit that's "not okay" it is probably not used too much. A fun perspective on the monastery anyway ^^

Attached a small "thank you". That's done almost like yours only that it is (and has to be) right after loading ;)
Hope you don't know it yet ... That's a fair few...
Currently I play my 3rd solo. I wanted to skip on the *Light* stuff, RPCs and the good class so I went for a Mage, which I consider pretty weak. Not sure about afterwards but it certainly needs a new challenge if I manage this one. So far I thought it should be a mod but Iron Man may also be an option. So no copying saves nor aborting games mid fight, right? Truth be told: I've got no idea how to play such a true IM solo. Sounds nigh impossible. Guess I'll go for the mods 1st and think about IM until I can come up with a plan that's anywhere near realistic.
Quite a feat townltu - chapeau!

Since I always go for several attempts simultaneously anyway I may just start both at that point and see how it goes.