I am trying something new. I have done 1 character before with a class change at level 2. I have started a new game with an alchemist, mage, and priest. What level should I change these 3 to ranger, samurai, and lord?

If you're talking about Wizardry 8, probably never, with the exception that changing a priest to lord/valkyrie might be a good idea after you learn some of the more important spells (I'm thinking at least Armorplate/Magic Screen).

If you're talking about Wizardry 6/7, do it once leveling up starts to slow down significantly, and remember to continue to boost your spellbook skill. (Also, rangers are rather lousy in Wizardry 6, and valkyries are better than lords in both 6 and 7 because they level faster.)

Hello,
I'm talking about wizardry 8. I've done a 4 caster run before, I've done a team critical run before(only the critical hit specialists), and I've done a hybrid run before.

My experience taught be that hybrids do a little better in the monastery, then started to do much worse than a spellcaster team as the spellcasters start to get their spells.

I then found that they only started to recovery at Arnika a little when they got the additional equipment that the spellcasters could not use. They then started to fade again until they could get the protection spells (armor, blade, missile shield, elemental shield, and soul shield) So I found that it was much later in the game when they really seemed to shine and finally overtake the casters. I could go with a team 6 wide(and rfs) and reliably hammer any opposition. I'd say I really saw them start to take off in Bayjin.

I''m not thinking of powergaming but there are 3 spots I could see doing the switch over.

Monastery - Do it fairly early (between 2 and 5) - That means that between level 6 and 10 you would start to gain spells again and able to practice. The quick start would help with an initially stronger spellcasting ability to build off of. The higher intelligence would help with skill growth in spellcasting. The weakness of this is that you would see the protective spells later although when you get them you would be able to cast them at a stronger level much sooner.

Arnika - When you arrive at Arnika you are usually at between 5 to 9 levels of experience. You would be able to get some of the protection spells before moving over to hybrid. Also Arnika is the first time you start to run into enough equipment that can start to make a difference in how well a hybrid will do with the better weapons and armor. The big issue with this is because you get there so late it will be Bayjin or so before you start being able to improve your spells again and getting new spells.

Late - You can wait until you learn your top level spells. That would mean between 18 and 20. Then you switch over end game to allow for the better equipment at the sacrifice of reaching the very most powerful levels on your top level spells. If you wait for 20th then you have put at least 60 points in the realms plus the spellcaster growth of mostly doing spells so you should be between 85 and 100 for each.

By the way, I"m using a mod called Wizardry 8 Enhanced which upgrades the Lord, increases combat speed, and increases damage from a few spells.

I'm not going for optimal but I'm thinking one of those three options above. Convince me and I'll give you a bonus of having answered my question.

Thank you!

I do have a bard and gadgeteer in this run.

My previous runs had been done on a vanilla game.
Mod Information:

Faster combat
• All monster animations speed increased
• Velocity of all conventional projectiles greatly increased
• Rockets fly twice as fast
• Poison Spit and Stinger Thorn sped up, as they are extensively used by monsters encountered in large groups
• shortened cobat sounds by Bloax
-speed of party members' melee attacks untouched, probably hardcoded
-there is still some delay between individual combatants' actions, probably hardcoded as well
Individual item graphics
284 new or altered equipment images. Many items shared the same few pieces of artwork. Most of them have their
own inventory graphics now.
Lord was somewhat noticeably worse than Valkyrie, so most people just went for Valk without much thougth
• Additional ability: +2 AC Bonus, +5% all resistances (because regen doesn't cut it at all)
• Bonus skill: Mace & Flail instead of Dual weapons, because:
◦ Shield is Lord's symbol, why a bonus going against it?
◦ Dual Weapons don't benefit from the +25% bonus over 100
• Professional skill: Dagger replaced with Shield (a couple off-hand swords compensate for this)
• starting item Mace and Round Shield instead of Rapier and Main Gauche
• A half-new endgame grade mace
Samurai
• allowed training of Polearm skill, Polearm added as Professional skill
• all spears and Naginata are usable by samurai, no lances or halberds
• no Dragon Kite, kept *Light* *Shield* available as the rare wacky OP item it has always been
Valkyrie has an additional polearm available. It was in the game data, but wasn't placed anywhere in the world.
Ninja
• levels up as hybrid instead of Elite, they will level up together with other hybrids
• Vitality requirement decreased from 50 to 45
• starting gear changed to cloth, Ninja garb improved
Ranger
• Added Professional Skill: Axe
Item changes
• Addressed lack of proper equipment for various character builds
• Balanced available MP regeneraion - toned down most hybrids, buffed specialist casters, bishop and ninja
• Spread MP recovery across more items, starting earlier through the game
• Several unused items placed in game
• Removed filler loot from some high-level lists to ensure some of the better random items when deserved.
• All items with set placement have been removed from random drop lists and merchants.

Alchemy rebalance
Bless - price decreased from 800 to 550
Cure Disease - decreased from 1500 to 1000
Renewal - the insane price of 5000 dropped to 2000
Pandemonium Powder - price 3000 down to 1500
Skeleton Powder - price increased from 600 to 1200
Devil Dust - price raised from 90 to 350, replaced Sneeze Powder as ingredient for Pandemonium Powder
Worst price bumps removed. Alchemy is still profitable, but you can no longer make absurd wealth in no time.

Magic rebalance
Spell Damage New damage
Acid Bomb 1-6 3-6
Blizzard 2-18 4-20
Cerebral Hem. 2-48 16-44
Crush 2-30 12-30
Draining Cloud 1-5 3-9
Earthquake 3-21 5-30
Energy Blast 1-7 1-8
Falling Stars 2-16 1-24
Fireball 2-8 4-8
Firestorm 2-8 1-12
Iceball 2-10 2-12
Lightning 2-16 6-18
Spell Damage New damage
Magic Missiles 1-7 2-8
Nuclear Blast 3-21 4-24
Prismic Chaos 3-27 6-30
Prismic Fire 2-16 3-18
Fire Bomb 2-10 same, added duration
Psionic Fire 2-10 4-12
Shrill Sound 1-5 3-4
Toxic Cloud 1-4 1-6
Tsunami 3-27 4-36
Whipping Rocks 2-10 4-10
Whirlwind 2-8 3-12
Direct damage spells were rather useless later in the game, compared to status effects and brute force. Beware,
enemy offensive spells are stronger as well, so this isn't necessarily making things easier.
Unfortunately I haven't found a way to add or alter status effects of spells. Damage will have to do.

Complete list of item changes
Cane of Corpus
Added penalty to Armor -3 to offset Robes of Rejuvenation
Monstrance, Holy Basher
+5 Piety (flavor bonus, felt too mundane)
Hayai Bo
Initiative +2 raised to +5
price 1750 raised to 2500
Mace, Stun Mace, War Scepter - primary, secondary
The Mauler - set location in Rapax Castle
Zizka Star - turned into the much needed Lord endgame weapon,
as it is based on a mace that was a leader's symbol
Lord only, price: 40 000
To Hit +4, Initiative +1, Damage 12-30
10% KO, 10% Turncoat (Possess)
Required Piety 75, Mace & Flail 50
Iron Will +15, Senses -10
-set location in Sea Caves
Faust Halberd - increased drop chance
Maenad's Lance (originally unavailable)
-set location in Sea Caves
Sai
Added AC +1, sold by Ferro, price 1250 raised to 2500
Cutlass - primary, secondary
Cutlass of the Damned
Damage 2-10 increased to 3-11
To Hit +1 increased to +2
Initiative of 0 raised to +1
Primary, secondary
Blade Cuisinart
Primary, secondary
-set location in Upper Rapax Castle
Vorpal Blade - set location in Rapax Rift
Demonsbane
Damage raised from 5-16 to 6-24 (the bonus damage percentage
against demons seems to be hardcoded)
To Hit +1 improved to +4
Ivory Blade - KO 5%, Turncoat 1%
Muramasa - same place, but 100% chance
No-Dachi - damage 5-21 raised to 5-25
Excaliber – same place, but 100% chance
Cleaver - primary, secondary
Bearded War Axe
Damage 1-6 increased to 2-12, Initiative +1 lowered to zero
Bipennis - damage changed from 7-21 to 10-24
Crusader's 2H Axe +1 - increased drop chance
Axe of Many Runes
3% Sleep, Paralyze, Hex, Kill, KO, Drain HP, Insanity
To Hit -8 changed to -3
Beastslayer Axe
Damage 3-17 increased to 8-20
To Hit +1 raised to +3
Primary, secondary (now on par with Diamond Eyes vs non-beasts)
Blades of Aesir
Damage 5-35 raised to 10-36
Initial Iceball charges 8-16 instead of 4-16
-set location in Rapax Castle
The Ripper
Damage 6-27 increased to 10-28
Kill 5% raised to 10% (to offset the low speed)
Eagle Eye Bow - set location in Rapax Away Camp
Rocket Launcher - KO 10%
-Sgt.Kunar is better supplied with rockets, price 400 -> 500
All kinds of throwing knives, darts and shurikens
-increased available quantities at vendors
Infinity Helm
Original: HP+2, ST+5, MP+5
Now: HP+3, ST+5, MP+3 - improved for fighters and nerfed for casting
hybrids, gives MP edge back to specialists
-set location at the Ascension Peak
Kabuto – Added MP+1
Hi-Kane-Do (U) - Added HP+1, better drop chance
Hi-Kane-Do (L) - Added ST+1, better drop chance
Golden Breastplate -set location in Sea Caves
Cloak of Many Colors – set location in Bayjin Shallows
Locket of Reflection, Necklace of Endurance - both female & male, it
was a needless limitation that strongly penalized male bards for no
reason
Aeromancer/ Geomancer/ Hydromancer/ Pyromancer's Ring
Alchemist, Mage, Psionic only
Added MP +1
Ankh of Sancticity
Bishop,Priest, Monk only
Added MP +1
Amulet of Nebdar
Alchemist, Mage, Priest, Psionic only - specialists had little advantage
over a properly trained bishop
MP increased from +1 to +4
Senses -5 changed to -10
Robes of Rejuvenation
MP +1 changed to +2
AC decreased from +6 to +5
ALL robes can be worn by Faeries and Ninjas
All parts of Ninja garb get +5 Critical Strike and price 2500
Ninja starting gear changed to simple cloth.
Spears and Naginata usable by Samurai
Dragon Kite not usable by Samurai
Mana stones no longer disappear when depleted, so they can be
recharged by selling and buying back

Originally unused gadgets
Demon Doll - set location in Upper Rapax Castle
-> Jack in the Box can be upgraded to Demon in the Box
High Voltage Trasformer - set location at the Mount Gigas peak
-> it is possible to create the Electroshocker
Loudspeaker placed in the Umpani Camp, Electric Eye in Lower Marten's Bluff
-> Watchdog Alarm can be created
+ moved Ptorch to Arnika and X-Ray Chip to Mt.Gigas, now their locations and requirements make sense

If I am not mistaken hybrids can't cast spells on levels 1-4. Never tried but that's what I read and it does make sense I guess. If that is so you may consider saving up levels before class changing.

That is not true, they can actually cast spells. I've done it a lot. What they cannot do is improve anything from casting. for those 4 levels it is just like using the dracon breath ability, useful but ultimately futile for improving your character.

Hybrid Tradeoff: + better equipment, + hitpoints, - 4 levels slower in when you can get the spells, - no bonus to primary skill

One thing I've heard done quite a bit is people using the specialized caster classes and then when they reach near the endgame they switch them over to the hybrid so that they can get better equipment.

Why go with a pure caster to start and then change over?
The reason is that you start off with a higher level of skill in magic, 2 starting spells, and the issue with equipment does not hurt you for a while as at the start there is very little equipment.

The question I was asking is when is the optimal time to change over the character from pure caster to hybrid. Remember that the longer you stay as a pure caster the lower your total hitpoints. It can mean a 40 hitpoint difference to maximum hitpoints but an equal gain in magic points. Also remember, it might change how long till you get the elite skills.

On the other hand getting the proper spells for defense and offense are very important. So it might be worth the wait to get those spells before switching to hybrid.

Absolute must spells:
Armorplate - Level 3 spell
Magic screen - Level 2 spell
Enchanted blade - Level 2 spell
Missile Shield - Level 2 spell

Combat must spells:
Bless - Level 1 spell
Soul Shield - Level 4 spell

The trick is that you need to choose when you want to have no spell improvement.

Spell Level .... Min. Class Level
................. PURE .. HYBRID
1 ................ 1 ....... 5
2 ................ 3 ....... 7
3 ................ 5 ....... 9
4 ................ 8 ...... 12
5 ............... 11 ...... 15
6 ............... 14 ...... 18
7 ............... 18 ...... 22

Spell Level ..... Min. Effective Skill Level
1 .................. 0
2 .................. 15
3 .................. 30
4 .................. 45
5 .................. 60
6 .................. 75
7 .................. 90

It's not as complicated as it sounds. Example: A mage, a pure caster, must be level 5 AND have an effective skill of 30 to learn Fireball, a third level Fire realm Mage spell. If he has 30+ skill in Wizardry, he's all set. He could also qualify if he has, say 28 in Wizardry and 20+ in Fire skill (10% rule).

Actually, what you said is not *entirely* true. If the character has the Powercast skill (due to having 100 base Intelligence), that skill can be improved regardless of class (though a character has to either already know a spell or be leveling up to actually improve it).

There is another rule with expert skills: If you do not qualify for the skill, you don't benefit from it, even if you have a non-zero value in the skill (due to an item or possibly (haven't tested this) due to a stat that dropped due to disease).

Good to know - thanks for clearing that up! I'll probably play my 1st class changing char soonish. Nonetheless I'd still consider saving up levels a powerful option however (albeit "fun > power" may have one skip on that option).