Well, hello there, Wizardry board. How are you doing today? I hope you're having a good day.

Genial pleasantries aside, I started a file on Wizardry 8 maybe... a few days ago? Possibly a week ago now? And I'm thinking I'm going to try and restart. I think I have a good, balanced team, but I'm realizing that I've messed up some of these characters' builds, and they're already level 10, meaning it's hard to deal with a lot of the random mobs now, making it that much harder to level up and fix what I messed up. Nothing quite like putting points into stats that aren't going to be useful because you forget that the other stats don't increase naturally upon leveling up.

Believe you me when I say going from a character-building JRPG like Etrian Odyssey to a character-building WRPG like Wizardry was a transition.

Anyway, what I'm here to ask is for some advice, both on building a party and on, well, building builds. I've looked at a couple guides, and while I think I understand now what their advice is, I'm still looking for any other tips or personal experiences. More knowledge is more knowledge, after all.

So here's the party I was running at first:
A Human Lord, serving as one of two tanks. Dual-wielding, I was focusing on swords and daggers. His damage output is/was... okay, but not great.
A Dracon Fighter, serving as the other tank. She had great damage if using Berserk, but otherwise she was pretty meh. I think it was because I rolled with axes instead of swords, since there seem to be very few axes in the game. Sheesh.
A Rawulf Priest, who functioned just fine. Not an attacker, but a decent caster. One of the few builds I didn't screw up.
A Felpurr Bard, who is desperately lacking in stamina. This was a big blunder of mine and I think it's too late to fix it now. His piety is low and his strength isn't much better.
An Elf Alchemist. This guy's decent enough, I guess, but it's just kinda eh. Some of the status spells are nice, but there's just not much to him.
A Human Ranger. Very, very good, not perfect, but her damage output is great, she can shoot a couple times per round, and she's got some decent spells.

I'm also carting Vi around, and she's easily the best member of the team, in both damage output and magic ability (the Priest is a better caster, but she's also a pure caster, so no duh). That's really the reason I'm making this topic in the first place.

So now I guess I'll open up the floor to you. What sort of things would you change, tweak, or recommend? What stats would you recommend focusing on first, so on and so forth, and if you would swap any characters out, which? The Priest, Ranger, and I guess Alchemist too, are alright, and I think they don't need any tweaking (now that I understand the building and leveling process better, it's just a matter of starting a new file and building them properly), but I'm open to suggestion on the rest. Should I get a Monk? Goodness knows I love me some RPG fistfighters. Or a Samurai, maybe?

A party only needs one tank, (I see a tank as taking damage)

A dragon lord (pump pie 1st and then vitality or strength) is the best tank in the game… she gets endless stamina for dragon breath, resists most spells effects and is the only class that can use cursed items without dying. For a dragon the best off hand weapon is daggers but swords are ok for the main hand. I personally like and recommend Valkryie for your dragon (take axe in the main hand) as this class does better melee damage and is 2nd best at taking it.

An Faerie Alchemist has stronger spell power and can grow up to become a Ninja melee | spell guy if you get him 50 points in strength (they get 50 bonus points at start so this isn’t all that hard)… this combo is so powerful as to be considered too easy to win with for many people but as this is your first time?

A Felpurr is best with senses so a range class works better… I like them for my bishop because you end up being able to take a hit better and also makes a very good backup healer.

The Bard is a jack of all trades and I like to melee with him so my pick is the Mook… he has good intel to build his music skill and will dual to fighter at level 11, 14 or 18. As a fighter he regens stamina and can still use the music stuff but it depends on what instruments your party needs.

A balanced party is a good choice for your first play-through. With respect to how tough you're finding the current battles, which area are you in and what monster groups are you currently encountering? It maybe you've entered an area a little earlier than you need to. Backtracking and levelling up in an easier area, exploring in a different direction may be one way of addressing this problem.

Another factor to consider is that you will level up to around 25 by the end of the game, so there are plenty of stat increases to amend stamina problems, plenty of spells and instruments to find that will assist your party.

Does your Ranger have his/her search option on or off? Best to turn this off when resting as having it on means enemies can spot you easier. If you're struggling in an area, turning the search facility off completely may help.

Wizardry 8 is a tough RPG compared to many, but it sounds as if you've done well in getting to grips with how the levelling up system works. The only tips I would give is to focus on your characters starting strengths to begin with, but do increase the strength of your Bishop a little at the start and the stamina of your Bard on a regular basis.

I've played a decent amount of Icewind Dale 2 before (which reminds me that I need to get back to that at some point and get past Chapter 2 :p), so I have a little experience with more WRPG-styled character building, but my main screwup was that... well, like you said, I need to focus on their starting strengths first. I'm too used to trying to bump up the weaker stats on a character and expecting their other stats to be okay; it's mainly the disconnect between W and JRPGs.

Everyone is/was (I made backup copies of my saves, tucked them away, and then cleaned out the actual save folder) around level 10, and we had been to the Monastery (there and back, tutorial dungeon and also checking out the wheel key tomb), Arnika, and Trynton (our last success was defeating the Breeder Rats). I wouldn't say things were really overly-difficult, it's just that I was realizing that I hadn't been focusing on the stats and things I probably should have been. It is getting harder, though, and the harder it is to gain those levels, the harder it is to fix the trip-ups I made earlier, so... yeah.

My plan was to have a Lord dual-wielding weapons for damage, a Fighter with a shield and weapon to serve as the tank, a Priest for healing (duh), an Alchemist with spells and a sling for ranged damage, a Ranger for purely-ranged damage and the searching and stuff, and a Bard for the musical instruments and also using a crossbow for another ranged dealer. Not taking Vi into account, of course.

The problem was that everything was... lopsided, I guess? The Lord didn't deal much dual-wielding damage very well, the Fighter was picking up the slack with Berserk so she didn't tank as well, and the Bard just didn't have enough stamina to keep up in longer battles. The Priest, Alchemist and Ranger were alright, the rest were... eh. Feels like I would have been better off with two Fighters and a Rogue instead.

1. Lord's never gonna be a good "tank" class. No shield, no warrior HP and it's a multiclass so it's gonna lvl up more slowly. Sword/dagger is fine as long as you don't have a rogue in your party (or melee bard) but imho the ultimate badass weapons for lord are maces (double diamond eyes). In the beginning you're able to wield that little simple hammer in the offhand too and for example disruptor mace in the main hand. Take str/dex patch from the beginning (dex is vital if dual wielding).
Lord's a fine second healer but to be honest - you don't need that in unmodded game. Why don't you try samurai which has much better damage output and mage spells (so more dmg/buffs).

2. Fighter. Yes, perfect choice for a tank. Always use berserk attack, if you want to literally soak up damage equip him/her with a shield. First invest in str/vit to the max, then speed/dex and that unlocked iron skin and that skill from maxed strength (don't remember the name). Put him in the middle of the first line and let him do his job. Amazing one-hit damage, great survivability. Simplest class and one of the most efficient in wiz8 :) Take swords, much more of them in wiz8, much better stats and effects than axes.

3. Priest. You've got rawulf so it's not gonna be a frontline support (like dwarf) but like I said in unmodded game pure healers are not so important. It's fine class, great buffs but you might try to add a little staff or maces proficiency (and str) so he can attack with whip or some kind of endgame staff from second row while not casting spells. Of course invest in piety/intelligence first.

4. Bard. Cats are one of the best choices here, true. Keep in mind that in arnika temple you'll find nice pendant that regenerates stamina all the time but it's only usable by females (as long as you're no gonna edit it in cosmic forge editor). So gadgie/bard might as well be girls :P And yes, stamina is a big issue so invest in vitality from the beginning (and don't touch piety, it's mainly for mages/priests). Music depends on intelligence and senses so they're important too. Give her a bow and wait for that wonderfull endgame instruments. It's worth it (same with gadgie).

5. Alchemist. First you've got ranger & alchie which overlaps so not a great choice. Why don't you take psionic here (or mage if you don't want samurai for a lord) or - a best chioce - a bishop with psionic/mage specialization. Simple and efficient. You might even add alchie spec here if you're not gona invest in alchemy with ranger. Take full int/piety approach, then take that stat which is secondary for your favourite spell school (for example dex for alchemy or senses for psionic). 3 points for each school during lvlup. Save money for spellbooks. Bish starts slowly but from midgame it really shines. Single casters are imo not so amazing. Elf is fine, faerie is a bit weaker in terms of survivablity but has improved mana regen which really helps (and later you'll be able to craft nice armor faerie-only). Maybe give him a sling so he can throw that stones while out of mana.

6. Ranger. Fine class, ranged criticals just kick ass. Think about investing in alchemy after 5th lvl but only if you're not gonna take bish. Ranger's also great cause he's tough enough to cover your flank and wield two-handed weapons with extended range. Imo the best choice for rangers are mooks, just look at their portraits and stats :P (and you'll find great twohanded extended sword for them). Senses and dex first. Bow is propably best, later on you'll find muskets but they're better in the fighter's/lord's/valkyrie's hands.

These are my tips for your party. Of course with your setup you'll gonna beat the game, propably without major problems, it's fine party but there's a lot of room for improvements :)

As for the npcs. I almost always take VI just like you did cause she's the most important npc story-wise and valkyrie class just rocks. But you've already got two healers so make a choice here. Third one is completely unneccesary. Standard str/dex patch is enough for Vi's role which is covering your flank with extended range polearm. What's most important is that she will travel with you to almost every location in game (even to the last one - and there's only one other npc able to do that without editing files).

In trynton you'll find nice addition in form of a trynnie gadgeteer which is just the most fun npc in wiz8. But soon enough he's gonna refuse to travel to many mid-endgame locations. Shame.

You've got fine party so don't complicate things and just go on with minor tweaks, beat the game and then start over with other classes. And then again and again :) After dozens playthroughs I can really tell you that in unmodded game rogue/fighter/samurai frontline just doesn't take any prisoners. Give them 2-3 schools bish, a bard (npc), gadgie, valkyrie (npc again) and maybe ranger for covering the other flank and you're good to go for second playthrough.

Hmm... if that's the case, then perhaps I could share my initial party setup? Initially I wasn't planning on having either Lord or Priest, but decided to balance stuff out just in case. But you're right, I do have numerous blue potions on me...

My initial thoughts were a Monk (damage), a Samurai (damage/mage spells), a Figher (tank or damage, either-or), an Alchemist (alchemy+throwing sling and bombs and stuff/maybe a healer in a pinch), a Bard (music, probably a bow or crossbow again), and after that... well, I wasn't really sure. Perhaps I'll keep the Ranger, or get something else. Maybe another magic class. Hmm...

What do you think about that do-up? Should I have followed my gut all along?

The beauty of Wizardry 8 is you can play and win the game with any party you choose.

Re-starting the game, or reloading an earlier one to correct the stat increase mistakes is fine and go with whatever party takes your fancy. I re-play this game pretty much every year - it is such fun I'm drawn back time and time again.

One point about a Bishop - no other class has their spell casting range; they can deal incredible damage as well as healing and supplying stamina.

What ever you decide to do - enjoy!

fyi there is a npc monk that will go to most areas in the game.

Yep, but that monk can't cast psionic spells at all. If you don't care about monk's spells then he's great, true.

@SBF1
Frontline monk/fighter/samurai is fine but you've got to remember that these dualclasses like samurai or monk won't start casting spells before 5th lvl and even after that they're better doing damage with fists/swords etc. (and training it during combat) than spellcasting. They mostly are just support casters if you really need to cast a buff or some aoe dmg spell to quickly finish off annoying groups of mobs. That's why it's always great to have bishop in your party so he can cover combat spellcasting (and/or healing depending on your choices). Samurai's never gonna be that powerful in terms of magic.
My choice would be - drop alchemist, take bishop instead, think about dropping bard (you'll find great npc later, he's able to go almost everywhere just like Vi) and taking gadgeteer instead. Focus on divinity and magic skill of your choice with bish. Keep in mind that with bard/gadgie you'll later have instruments and gadgets that can cast endgame spells from almost every school that cost stamina, not mana (and they'll cover all buffs too, same with double aoe healing).
That's why I'd completely neglect magic skill with your fronliners, just focus on improving their melee abilities.

So:
monk (two ways here, either str/dex/speed for strong pure dmg monk or dex/speed/senses for critical hits monk) - just don't give him any weapons, he'll be most powerful just with his fists believe me
samurai (dex/str/speed) with a sword (just try not making him encumbered, cause it makes him unable to launch his special lightinig strike ability)
fighter, tank, like I said in previous post
bish (int/piety) with divinity and maybe psionics/alchemy and/or wizardry (3 skills)
gadgeeter (int/dex/senses, later vitality) - leave him with his omnigun, it's best weapon for him and it levels up with gadgie
ranger (senses/dex) - it's ok, gonna cover your flank and shoot criticals
npc Vi as valkyrie (str/dex) and Saxx as bard (int/senses, later vitality).
Or make bard by yourself and take npc Monk instead.

How much of a change-up do you want to do? Replacing PCs is possible but you're generally better off restarting rather than doing in-play swaps.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the current party roster. It may not be hyper-optimized but you don't need it to be. The only real issue I can see at the moment is that it looks like you don't have a second NPC along, just Vi. In the early going, Myles is likely to be the only other option, but if you've dealt with the breeder rats in Trynton, Madras the Gadgeteer should be recruitable in his workshop in Trynton, and he's a good addition. He won't want to go to most faction-oriented locations, but the same is true of Myles, and a gadgeteer is a very good support character. (If nothing else, your ranger will love him for his ability to make triple crossbows.)

Keep in mind that wizardry doesn't really subscribe to the "tank/healer/dps" model that some current games are built around. The fighter is a durable HITS STUFF HARD! character rather than an I-only-exist-to-soak-damage type; berserk is the standard attack option and with it he can hit harder than anyone else in the game. It sounds like he's doing fine as-is.

As noted, dual wielding lords usually go with maces, but any weapon combination CAN work as long as you're patient and/or know where to find special items. If no one else is using it, giving him Bloodlust (once you find it in Arnika) for the main hand may be an option - it means he'll be berserking by default (like the fighter) and while dual wielding means missing a lot in the early game, the Lord's divine spellcasting makes him as much a support-fighter as a heavy hitter.

Ranger + Alchemist isn't necessarily bad since the ranger is usually better off focusing on his archery rather than spending all of his time (and stats) casting, and the alchemist's free potion creation is a nice perk. It's worth noting that the alchemist is actually a strong healer in his own right - the only thing he doesn't provide when compared to the priest is Sane Mind, and his offensive spellcasting is much, much stronger.

Bards can develop quite a few ways; their instrument use tends become more prominent later on (and will be helped a great deal by having two stamina-restoring casters in the group). There's also a lot of bard-specific gear in the game - not just instruments!


Bear in mind that most combat values are influenced by more than one stat. If you need more stamina on the bard, strength, piety, vitality, and (IIRC) dexterity will all contribute to it, and each also contributes to other things - piety is actually likely to be the least useful stamina stat for them, UNLESS your initial game plan is to rush it to 100 for Iron Will.

Likewise, stats may be useful to characters in ways that you wouldn't expect from modern RPGs. Intelligence and Senses on a fighter? Senses is good for the times when he has to pull out a bow, but less obvious is that Int and Senses are the governing stats for his Close Combat skill - and that one's really important to him, so treating both Int and Senses as dump stats can result in his Close Combat skill stagnating later on. (And this makes a great deal of sense when you think about it. Sure, it's nice that he's strong as an ox and moves faster than the eye can see, but if he's also blind as a bat and dumb as a post, you can't expect much in the way of battlefield tactics out of the guy.)


If you have a ranger in the group, don't use Search Mode at all - one of the ranger's perks is that they're always getting search mode benefits without the drawbacks, and since their search skill makes them even better at finding things (and Senses is the key stat for pretty much everything they do), they're going to be better at spotting things passively than anyone else will be at spotting things actively.

I played Wiz8 years ago, so don't remember all classes, but you definitely want a couple characters, who are capable of producing Instant Death attacks. One class, who have Instant Death naturally and is a good choice, is Ninja, on others I am not sure, but Instant Death spells are also the spells to consider in this game.

Otherwise, late game mobs have just way-way-way too much HP to kill them in any reasonable time-frame and battles will last forever without Instant Death.

The hardest class to properly develop and not recommended to newbies.
Instant death (actually it's gonna be death cloud cause it's aoe, while instant death itself is single target) is spell from alchemy school so: bish, alchemist, ranger, ninja

And spells with same aoe effect:
- death wish (divine school, so bish, priest, valkyrie, lord)
- asphyxiation (wizardry school so bish, mage, samurai)
- nagat air gadget (asphyxiation spell)

So... ninja is not neccesairly the best choice here :P
But you're of course right about usefulness of these kind of spells in lategame.

Quicksand (Alchemy) is also an AoE instant kill, and it's available earlier than any of the others, being level 6 while the others are all level 7.

That said, multi-target paralysis and other disabling effects are often just as good.

Agreed --- My favourite is the Psionics spell Pandemonium--- extremely lone range, hits any target (not on my side) in the area regardless of what group they are in. This spell does no damage but will save your group from getting spattered and it’s nice to see a large group of samurai Rapax attacking themselves instead of me.

A Lord can tank, but only if you go all out on Vitality, and later you'll need Piety, Dexterity and Speed, so you can pretty much say goodbye to Powerstike, altough it is possible to rise that one slowly with the others (like rising 3/2/1 points instead of 3/3). If You want a tanking Lord, a Dwarf is a much better Idea due to his damage absorbtion and high Piety. Also consider dual wielding Maces, as the best offhand weapon for the Lord is a Mace, and KOing ennemies is always good. There are not too many Axes in the Game, and they tend to bet relatively weak later on. Swords are much better choice for a Fighter. Also, a Fighter is more of a Tank than anything else and will fall back later in the game as his abilities max out pretty early. Having a Priest with a Lord or Valkirye is very redundant, better choose another Magic class. Considering your Party has not to many ones with some magic ability, a Bishop could be right for you, although not advisable for early players as their development is long and tedious and you have to rely on buying spellbooks if you want all the spells in the game. Bishops have all 4 spellbooks, so you could also simply dual class your priest without losing any abilities. A Bard needs much stamina. A Dracon, Lizardman, Mook or Rawulf would be much better suited for that Job, even if their Bonus Points might try to tell you otherwise. Alchemists have the most versatile Spellbook, but not many heavy hitters until very late. they can however also mix potions, which is useful to gain potions you miss, lighten you equipment and make some bucks. Again, a bishop can do the same and much more on the long run. A ninja would also have the same spellbook, but he's even more difficult to train than the Bishop. Decent pick, although I tend to avoid Humuns since they don't have any resistance bonuses. Just try to get Eagle Eye as soon as possible and put some points in modern Weapons. Again, redundant with your Priest, but she's also the reason I rarely start with a valk as she is quite close to perfect. I also tend to tag her along as much as possible.