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Vampire The Masquerade seriesSome questions after finishing the game (spoilers)(54 posts)(54 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 21, 2016
about the game world:

- Why is sunlight bad for vampires?
They live and work in normally illuminated houses and offices. Street lights and the disco lights in the clubs are also not a problem. The mandarin tests that lots of UV lamps have no effect. So what is so bad about sunlight?

- So vampires lives thouthends of years among humans without being detected. The mandarin tells us, that vampires have no body heat. Just being close to them should feel cold and you can easily detect them with a infrared camera. It should also be strange that some people run a company for a long time without againg and they never come out at daytime. (Some own clubs, LeCroix is boss of a big company and Isaac makes movies).

about the game story:

So we know that the bomb inside the sacophargus is from Jack. And somebody told the archeologists were to find it. Inside the sacophargus was just an ancient mummy, but nothing supernatural like vampires.

- Who told the archeologist where to find the sacophargus?
Jack does not seem to be an expert for ancient stuff.
Beckett is an expert, but he wants to seek and study it himself. Why should he tell humans about an artifact that might be related to vampires when he wants to study it himself?

- When did Jack put the explosives into the sacophargus?
Theory: Jack took a boat full of explosives, went to the ship, killed the crew, replaced the mummy with the bomb and took the key. Then he came back with mummy and key and gave the key to Ming Xiao. Then he spread the rumor that there is an ancient vampire inside.
some problems about this theory:
+ When I am on the ship, i say it looks as if it has been opened from the inside. That means it is open when I am on the ship.
+ So Jack goes to these asians (who are at war with the anarchs) and tells them: "Here is a key to an ancient artifact and the camarilla has it, have fun." This sounds not very plausible.

Theory 2: Jack and Beckett cooperate in order to kill LeCroix: Beckett tells the archeologist where to find the sacophargus (He knows that there is no vampire inside). Beckett spreads the rumor that there is an ancient vampire inside. One of them (or somebody who works for them) does the massacre on the ship. They put the explosives into the sacophargus inside the museum. Beckett pretends to study the sacophargus when he visits Lecroix, because he knows that it cannot be opened until LeCroix has the key. When LeCroix sends me to get the key, Beckett tells me not to open it.
This explains why Beckett tells me not to open the sacophargus at the end and how the explosives come into it.
disadvantages:
+ If They put the explosives into the sacophargus in the museum, why does Beckett allow the giovanni to steal the sacophargus? The plan is to kill LeCroix and I should deliver the bomb.
+ How do the Kuei Jin get the key?
+ We never see that Jack and Beckett meet in the game.

- Assuming my theories are wrong, who killed the crew on the ship?

- How do the kuei jin know, that the giovanni have the sacophargus? I do not think the nosferatu sell their information to absolutely everybody.

- Just to be sure: LeCroix cooperates with Ming Xiao to kill Gout. He uses me as whitness to blame nines. LeCroix wants to feed on the ancient vampire to become more powerful. Gout must die because he might find out about the plans of the prince. Is that correct?

- What kind of creature is Pisha, the spider queen in the hospital? Normally vampires drink only blood but they do not eat flesh.
Posted June 21, 2016
Disclaimer: I am not an expert on the World of Darkness, I have only browsed some books and read wikis. I can be wrong in any or all my answers.

- To begin with, you must keep in mind that vampirism is a divine punishment, not a medical condition that can be explained and understood in scientific terms. Sunlight burns because the curse works that way, no other reason.

- I don't see that it is impossible for immortal beings to reinvent themselves; change names, move to new cities etc. The long lived ones plot and scheme for centuries, and the idea about the masquerade is to stay hidden, so they wouldn't overstay their welcome. If they do, other powerful vampires may destroy them to protect the masquerade

- I don't remember much of the story to be honest, even though I play through the game every couple of years or so. Ultimately it is a pointless nihilistic adventure that has almost zero impact on the mythos. Yeah, the game is considered canon, but the story is completely pointless in the grander scheme of things.

What I do remember however is that the whole thing with the sarcophagus is a trick played by Jack and the taxi driver, who is supposed to be Cain himself, though the way the game presents itself it does not commit to this theory. It is a cop out, and as I said, a pointless and nihilistic story that accomplishes nothing.

I'm not particularly concerned with how all that worked out but I'm almost certain that Beckett is not in on the conspiracy. I think it is suggested that he smells the C4 and while he can't be sure he figures out that there is probably nothing supernatural about the sarcophagus, but something about it is still wrong so he suggests the player character does not open it.

The other conspiracies, I don't remember too well but a common theme in the World of Darkness is that the older vampires are always scheming to screw each other over.

- Pisha is of the Nagaraja bloodline that was created by Mages in ancient India. That is, Mages that experimented with vampire blood and turned themselves into some sort of vampires, kind of like the Tremere.
Posted June 21, 2016
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Mad3: Who told the archeologist where to find the sacophargus?
Either Jack or the taxi driver. Beckett was not in the conspiracy. The malkavian girl on the beach says that there are only 2 persons you can trust: the lone wolf (Beckett, not Jack), and the man on the couch (Romero or, most likely, Mercurio).

Beckett is a character from the tabletop RPG. He's sort of a scholar, not alleged with anyone. There is simply no way he would be interested in killing a prince.

Smiling Jack, on the other hand, was always an anarchistic type, who dislike Camarilla.
When did Jack put the explosives into the sacophargus?
Most likely Jack (with the explosives) was delivered on the ship inside the sarcophagus, and opened it from the inside during the sail. Once everyone were killed, he simply activated the bomb, closed sarcophagus with the key and escaped.
We never see that Jack and Beckett meet in the game.
If you noticed, before the scene where Beckett tells you not to open the sarcophagus, he was running from the direction where the Anarch's club is located. He is a very smart dude, and must have managed to put 1 and 1 together. I have a guess that they had a little chat with Jack.
How do the kuei jin know, that the giovanni have the sacophargus? I do not think the nosferatu sell their information to absolutely everybody.
Maybe Barabus revealed that to them, since he was captured and interrogated. Or maybe they are managed to track it down on their own.
Just to be sure: LeCroix cooperates with Ming Xiao to kill Gout. He uses me as whitness to blame nines. LeCroix wants to feed on the ancient vampire to become more powerful. Gout must die because he might find out about the plans of the prince. Is that correct?
Grout, as a malkavian, already knew what's going to happen. LaCroix uses the opportunity to remove the powerful Anarch's leader and the suspicious Primogen.

Quote from the Grout's recordings: "He will go to any length to achieve his ambitions, and he knows that I know!"
Post edited June 21, 2016 by Carnage
Posted June 21, 2016
Although all basic questions have already been answered here, I will now add my own theory to the list:

1) I think the cabbie is impersonated by Caine who according to the Gehenna book at that time is in a cave in exactly the area where the sarcophagus is found.
2) I believe that Caine uses the sarcophagus to test how his childer will behave under pressure and Jack works with him as he basically always likes chaos ;).
3) Jack put's the C4 in on the Dane and kills the crew to start the rumor of the antediluvian inside.
4) Beckett is not involved at all and just figures out there is something fishy about the whole thing.

Some modders are right now working on a Bloodlines prequel to explain what might have happened :)!
Post edited June 21, 2016 by wesp5
Posted June 21, 2016
Thanks

so its like this:
- Jack and the driver are behind this. Jack was inside the sacophargus on the ship.

- When Grout talks about a person whose name he does not mention, he is referring to LeCroix. This Malkavian talk is sometimes hard to understand. I played them this time and sometimes I had problems to see which of my possible answers mean yes or no. Sometimes I had to reload because I gave the wrong answer. ( I am not a native english speaker )

- Before I got this game from gog I knew nothing about the world of darkness. I read a bit in the wki now. So this game is set in the final nights of the old world of darkness. The end of the world does come and it will be the end of vampires, humans and absolutely everything. The new world of darkness is a different universe that has nothing to do with the old one, except that both are set on our "real" earth and vampires (and other supernatural things) do exist.

- Since the end of the world does come shortly after the events in the game, it is unlikely that there will be a sequel. They could make a new game in the new world of darkness. Since I do not know much about the WoD, I don´t care much about the setting as long as the game has a good story and is fun to play.

- I would be great if people make a prequel for this. I do not know much about programming. I have played black mesa ( a HL1 remake with the HL2 engine). But until playing bloodlines, I thought that source is only good for games like first person shooters.
Posted June 21, 2016
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Mad3: - Jack and the driver are behind this. Jack was inside the sacophargus on the ship.
No. Jack wasn't in the box, he was the whole time in LA while the sarcophagus was shipped from Turkey. But as the Dane closed in on LA, he or the Cabbie or others entered it, killed the crew, opened the box, took Messerach out, put the C4 in, closed the box and manipulated the logs to give the impression the crew was killed over time. Game set!

- When Grout talks about a person whose name he does not mention, he is referring to LeCroix.
Yes. I think he saw that the prince would do everything to improve his power including diablerie!

- I would be great if people make a prequel for this.
As I wrote, it's already in the works. Let's hope it get's finished as this is quite a big undertaking!
Posted June 21, 2016
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Carnage: If you noticed, before the scene where Beckett tells you not to open the sarcophagus, he was running from the direction where the Anarch's club is located. He is a very smart dude, and must have managed to put 1 and 1 together. I have a guess that they had a little chat with Jack.
I think that Beckett approaches you from an opposite direction than where the Anarch's club is located.

How do the kuei jin know, that the giovanni have the sacophargus? I do not think the nosferatu sell their information to absolutely everybody.
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Carnage: Maybe Barabus revealed that to them, since he was captured and interrogated. Or maybe they are managed to track it down on their own.
Or maybe they were tipped by Jack.
Post edited June 21, 2016 by duchU
Posted June 21, 2016
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Mad3: Since the end of the world does come shortly after the events in the game, it is unlikely that there will be a sequel. They could make a new game in the new world of darkness. Since I do not know much about the WoD, I don´t care much about the setting as long as the game has a good story and is fun to play.
Personally, I don't think the game needs a sequel, but many different stories can be told in this setting, despite that the world has come to an end.
I would be great if people make a prequel for this. I do not know much about programming. I have played black mesa ( a HL1 remake with the HL2 engine). But until playing bloodlines, I thought that source is only good for games like first person shooters.
There are Alien Swarm, Dota 2 and many other games from different genres running on the Source engine, but VtMB is using a heavily modified version.
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wesp5: No. Jack wasn't in the box, he was the whole time in LA while the sarcophagus was shipped from Turkey. But as the Dane closed in on LA, he or the Cabbie or others entered it, killed the crew, opened the box, took Messerach out, put the C4 in, closed the box and manipulated the logs to give the impression the crew was killed over time. Game set!
During the conversation with LaCroix, after the player visits Elizabeth Dane, he says that the sarcophagus was opened from the inside. The theory is that, someone was already in it when they loaded it on the ship, and he indeed opened it from the inside to kill the crew.
Posted June 21, 2016
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wesp5: No. Jack wasn't in the box, he was the whole time in LA while the sarcophagus was shipped from Turkey.
What a pity.
This would have been a literal Jack-In-The-Box. ;-)

The explosives are from Jack himself. You can see his letter when you (or Lecroix, which is better for your health) open it.

EDIT:
OK, I do not care about the official version and I will believe that Jack was in the sacophargus on the ship.
Why? Because it is the must funny version:
- You have a Jack-In-The-Box
- There actually was a vampire in the sacophargus
- Its cliche´, you have a vampire who travels in a coffin and waits for the right moment to awaken. You can see this in tons of movies
- I think I read that jack was a pirate. A pirate sneaking on a ship and killing the crew at night fits well.
- My favourite theory: Jack is actually Jack Sparrow from the pirates of the caribien movies. In part 4 he was looking for the water of life. When this failed, he became a vampire to become immortal. There are undead in the movies. And it saves him from drinking too much rum.
- It would also explain why the sacophargus has been opened from the inside. But this arguments makes too much sense, so I drop it.
Post edited June 21, 2016 by Mad3
Posted June 21, 2016
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duchU: I think that Beckett approaches you from an opposite direction than where the Anarch's club is located.
IIRC Lacroix tells you to go and make peace with Anarchs, so when you're going there Beckett meets you and says not to open it under any circumstances. I assume during your conversation with LaCroix, he had a conversation with Jack, otherwise why would he meet you in such a strange place?
Posted June 21, 2016
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Mad3: - My favourite theory: Jack is actually Jack Sparrow from the pirates of the caribien movies
Yeah, I had this thought myself, but then the WoD Jack isn't as soft as the Pirates one ;).

As for Jack in the box, no. Remember the key and how it works? Why should there be a way
to unlock and lock the box from the inside? This is a sarcophagus we are talking about...
Posted June 21, 2016
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duchU: I think that Beckett approaches you from an opposite direction than where the Anarch's club is located.
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Carnage: IIRC Lacroix tells you to go and make peace with Anarchs, so when you're going there Beckett meets you and says not to open it under any circumstances. I assume during your conversation with LaCroix, he had a conversation with Jack, otherwise why would he meet you in such a strange place?
Well, he doesn't approach you from the Last Round direction only form the opposite side. He comes from the allay behind the library (direction). At least when you go main street. Not sure how it works when you go that allay from the other side. I would rather say that he sniffed C4 or mabye more intensive Cain presence. Jack uses a player to get rid of the prince and one of the endings shows he is not much concerned when you die. Telling Beckett could ruin the whole plan so I don't think Beckett was tipped by Jack.
Posted June 21, 2016
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Mad3: about the game world:

- Why is sunlight bad for vampires?
They live and work in normally illuminated houses and offices. Street lights and the disco lights in the clubs are also not a problem. The mandarin tests that lots of UV lamps have no effect. So what is so bad about sunlight?

- So vampires lives thouthends of years among humans without being detected. The mandarin tells us, that vampires have no body heat. Just being close to them should feel cold and you can easily detect them with a infrared camera. It should also be strange that some people run a company for a long time without againg and they never come out at daytime. (Some own clubs, LeCroix is boss of a big company and Isaac makes movies).

about the game story:

So we know that the bomb inside the sacophargus is from Jack. And somebody told the archeologists were to find it. Inside the sacophargus was just an ancient mummy, but nothing supernatural like vampires.

- Who told the archeologist where to find the sacophargus?
Jack does not seem to be an expert for ancient stuff.
Beckett is an expert, but he wants to seek and study it himself. Why should he tell humans about an artifact that might be related to vampires when he wants to study it himself?

- When did Jack put the explosives into the sacophargus?
Theory: Jack took a boat full of explosives, went to the ship, killed the crew, replaced the mummy with the bomb and took the key. Then he came back with mummy and key and gave the key to Ming Xiao. Then he spread the rumor that there is an ancient vampire inside.
some problems about this theory:
+ When I am on the ship, i say it looks as if it has been opened from the inside. That means it is open when I am on the ship.
+ So Jack goes to these asians (who are at war with the anarchs) and tells them: "Here is a key to an ancient artifact and the camarilla has it, have fun." This sounds not very plausible.

Theory 2: Jack and Beckett cooperate in order to kill LeCroix: Beckett tells the archeologist where to find the sacophargus (He knows that there is no vampire inside). Beckett spreads the rumor that there is an ancient vampire inside. One of them (or somebody who works for them) does the massacre on the ship. They put the explosives into the sacophargus inside the museum. Beckett pretends to study the sacophargus when he visits Lecroix, because he knows that it cannot be opened until LeCroix has the key. When LeCroix sends me to get the key, Beckett tells me not to open it.
This explains why Beckett tells me not to open the sacophargus at the end and how the explosives come into it.
disadvantages:
+ If They put the explosives into the sacophargus in the museum, why does Beckett allow the giovanni to steal the sacophargus? The plan is to kill LeCroix and I should deliver the bomb.
+ How do the Kuei Jin get the key?
+ We never see that Jack and Beckett meet in the game.

- Assuming my theories are wrong, who killed the crew on the ship?

- How do the kuei jin know, that the giovanni have the sacophargus? I do not think the nosferatu sell their information to absolutely everybody.

- Just to be sure: LeCroix cooperates with Ming Xiao to kill Gout. He uses me as whitness to blame nines. LeCroix wants to feed on the ancient vampire to become more powerful. Gout must die because he might find out about the plans of the prince. Is that correct?

- What kind of creature is Pisha, the spider queen in the hospital? Normally vampires drink only blood but they do not eat flesh.
Sunlight causes Quei-Jin flesh to rot, vampire flesh to burn. In vampire redemption you could even have that as a game mechanism, in one place. It's in the setting's lore. They decided to keep this myth, for some reason, as well as to abolish other ones, like crosses, holy/running water etc.

Having no body heat is cold, if you TOUCH it! If not, how can you divine this out? Don't forget that vampires in this setting can alter most mortals' perception of them, their surroundings, even downright mind control them and induce hallucinations to them. The elder the vampire the greater the powers, cunning, environment adaptability and precaution to... Fool mortals! They can even use blood buff to "temporarily emulate a living body fully" (even have sex if they wanted, as some pnp books suggest).

About the archaeologist: With right stats, he admits being tipped on where to find the "box", during dialogue.

About Jack. Prince mentions "he is a scourge, the physical manifestation of chaos; not long from when he appears into a city, chaos ensues". Probably he was stirring some trouble and the prince was suspecting it; but obviously not to its true extent...

Now, major spoiler. Usually Malkavian insight acquired... Take a long breath and sit down...

The. Taxi. Driver. Is... CAINE! The dark father!

The dominant theory. Was entombed in same sarcophagus together with Messerach (the name of the ancient mummy). So it makes sense why, or how, "The box seemed to be opened from the inside when on ship". He used the hapless crew for his blood source, most possible, due to ages of sleeping away (jack mentions that habit of sleeping ancients and great hunger when awake, in detail, in bar). Now opinions conflict. Others say he fully controls Jack, others that they are on friendly terms and Jack helps him, or simply does his own thing (this would make the most sense). That is why all supernaturals feel uneasy and that pressure around them.

Quei Jin are scouts/spies and martial artists, plus undead. Strange thing to ask, how they get to know vital information. They are also very deadly agents (like the one in foxy boxes), adept technology users and even more capable fighters. Every vampire fears them. Wouldn't make sense if they wouldn't be able to figure and pull out hard things to do, all by themselves!

Just to be sure, you got everything right in that sentence. That was the plan/plot. Grout as every typical malkavian, though, hears voices, the thoughts of their long dead clan leader. Those voices are "madness" and "revelations", both at the same time. Their dead clan leader communicates telepathically, through something like a web of information (malkvanian network), which connects all of Malkavian clan origin! Those voices drive them insane, this is their unique clan curse to balance out their gift of immortality.

Pisha is of Nagaraja clan. This clan isn't playable in the games based on Vampire the Masquerade. If you read the wiki at white wolf, you will learn exactly what is Pisha. She's also a lesbian; refers to her medieval, lost love, as "she". Plus she later reveals that her name is actually her lover's name, because she tells no one her real one.
Post edited June 21, 2016 by KiNgBrAdLeY7
Posted June 21, 2016
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KiNgBrAdLeY7: The dominant theory. Was entombed in same sarcophagus together with Messerach (the name of the ancient mummy). So it makes sense why, or how, "The box seemed to be opened from the inside when on ship".
That's not the dominant theory, just yours ;). And again it makes no sense because why would you create a sarcophagus that can be opened and closed and locked from the inside? Also why would Caine be inside with Messerach in the first place? I think canon is that Caine was in a cave at that time, but he said he left it in spirit.

Others say he fully controls Jack, others that they are on friendly terms and Jack helps him, or simply does his own thing (this would make the most sense).
Maybe we should let Jack speak himself about this: "Hey, it happened just like you said. [Jack laughs]They never even knew what hit 'em. Threw that sarcophagus out there and they just tore each other up tryin' to get to it. " This implies that they are on friendly terms and that Caine was not inside the sarcophagus himself, but planned it!
Posted June 21, 2016
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Mad3: - My favourite theory: Jack is actually Jack Sparrow from the pirates of the caribien movies
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wesp5: Yeah, I had this thought myself, but then the WoD Jack isn't as soft as the Pirates one ;).

As for Jack in the box, no. Remember the key and how it works? Why should there be a way
to unlock and lock the box from the inside? This is a sarcophagus we are talking about...
It would have had to be unlocked for Jack to get in. No one would expect it to be unlocked so it would pass unnoticed. The Kwai Jen may have well been the ones who killed the crew with Jack killing one of the squids that later washed up on shore but not before the Kwai Jin got the key. A little wrinkle. Jack would have had to make it look like it was opened from the inside somehow so the story would go on -after all, that was part of the report back to the Prince.


As for the "dominant theory", that's a new one on me.
Post edited June 21, 2016 by lordhoff
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Community
Vampire The Masquerade seriesSome questions after finishing the game (spoilers)(54 posts)(54 posts)
(54 posts)