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The Witcher 2Kayran boss fight = awful design (no spoilers)(78 posts)(78 posts)
(78 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted May 19, 2011
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ThulsaDooom: It's not bad design just because you can't beat it. Stop being so dramatic, good grief.
It's possible that there are some serious bugs with collision detection and that lethal electricity managing to seep over the bridge when it shouldn't. It'd be pretty taxing if you kept dying in the same spot inexplicably while others passed through without any troubles.

I was one of those who passed through without any troubles, so I'm not complaining. Just saying that it might be something out of their control rather than a lack of skill.
Posted May 19, 2011
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ThulsaDooom: It's not bad design just because you can't beat it. Stop being so dramatic, good grief.
Are you seriously suggesting there are no issues with the combat in this game?
Posted May 19, 2011
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ThulsaDooom: It's not bad design just because you can't beat it. Stop being so dramatic, good grief.
I beat it - that's not what makes it poorly designed.

But when a substantial amount of people are having difficulty with the same section, it shows it either wasn't play tested enough or there are some serious issues that were overlooked.

It's not obvious at all that you're meant to run up the left hand column to finish the fight. My attempts to use the column to the right ended with unseen lethal electricity killing me for no reason.

I was also hit once with a homing rock while Quenn was active and was unable to recover in time to roll out of the way of the next three - thus granting the beast an instant kill.

Also, I can see why a lot of people would be confused by the middle 2 tentacles not reacting to the Yrden sign - though they don't have a weak spot, I totally tried to trap them initially also before realising my mistake.

The boss fight is visually arresting, and interesting in terms of design. The execution just left a few issues.
Posted May 19, 2011
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ThulsaDooom: It's not bad design just because you can't beat it. Stop being so dramatic, good grief.
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jim_uk: Are you seriously suggesting there are no issues with the combat in this game?
Not at all but what issues are you referring to? Mr. 227 brings up a valid point. Sometimes things go wonky causing a death but the game is by no means, that word that people love to throw out far too often, broken. People are far too melodramatic, even moreso when it comes to PC games, and need to relax a bit.
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ThulsaDooom: It's not bad design just because you can't beat it. Stop being so dramatic, good grief.
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Vitor121796: I beat it - that's not what makes it poorly designed.

But when a substantial amount of people are having difficulty with the same section, it shows it either wasn't play tested enough or there are some serious issues that were overlooked.

It's not obvious at all that you're meant to run up the left hand column to finish the fight. My attempts to use the column to the right ended with unseen lethal electricity killing me for no reason.

I was also hit once with a homing rock while Quenn was active and was unable to recover in time to roll out of the way of the next three - thus granting the beast an instant kill.

Also, I can see why a lot of people would be confused by the middle 2 tentacles not reacting to the Yrden sign - though they don't have a weak spot, I totally tried to trap them initially also before realising my mistake.

The boss fight is visually arresting, and interesting in terms of design. The execution just left a few issues.
Some forum posts equate a substantial amount? A lot of those things aren't the design's fault, it's the player's fault.

Personally, I love the difficulty of the game and loathe obvious paths to victory. In the case of the karyan fight, you have to observe your environment. Obviously, you don't go rushing in when the bridge topples down because the beast is still dangerous and the electricity is still active.

Also, knowing which tentacle to trap is fixed by looking up.

It's not poorly designed and I think they telegraphed it fairly well by the entire column falling down trapping the beast, they showed the rocks falling down a few times and then the entire structure.
Post edited May 19, 2011 by ThulsaDooom
Posted May 19, 2011
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jim_uk: Are you seriously suggesting there are no issues with the combat in this game?
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ThulsaDooom: Not at all but what issues are you referring to? Mr. 227 brings up a valid point. Sometimes things go wonky causing a death but the game is by no means, that word that people love to throw out far too often, broken. People are far too melodramatic, even moreso when it comes to PC games, and need to relax a bit.
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Vitor121796: I beat it - that's not what makes it poorly designed.

But when a substantial amount of people are having difficulty with the same section, it shows it either wasn't play tested enough or there are some serious issues that were overlooked.

It's not obvious at all that you're meant to run up the left hand column to finish the fight. My attempts to use the column to the right ended with unseen lethal electricity killing me for no reason.

I was also hit once with a homing rock while Quenn was active and was unable to recover in time to roll out of the way of the next three - thus granting the beast an instant kill.

Also, I can see why a lot of people would be confused by the middle 2 tentacles not reacting to the Yrden sign - though they don't have a weak spot, I totally tried to trap them initially also before realising my mistake.

The boss fight is visually arresting, and interesting in terms of design. The execution just left a few issues.
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ThulsaDooom: Some forum posts equate a substantial amount? A lot of those things aren't the design's fault, it's the player's fault.

Personally, I love the difficulty of the game and loathe obvious paths to victory. In the case of the karyan fight, you have to observe your environment. Obviously, you don't go rushing in when the bridge topples down because the beast is still dangerous and the electricity is still active.

Also, knowing which tentacle to trap is fixed by looking up.

It's not poorly designed and I think they telegraphed it fairly well by the entire column falling down trapping the beast, they showed the rocks falling down a few times and then the entire structure.
I completed Demon's Souls, I too like a challenge - I just feel like sometimes the challenge I'm getting here isn't always fair.

But there are two fallen column - one on either side. Trial and error is the only way to know which one to go up as it's not obvious. Also, as there's still one tentacle uncut - what's to make me not assume that I should go and slice that one to finish the job? Going there only gets you swiped at and possible killed by the flying rocks just because it totally appears to be a valid option. How was I to know that Geralt needing to bomb it to instant death while it still had some health left?

Being made to do the entire fight again for such a small error just seems extreme. In Demon's Souls I felt it was my lack of skill that cost me fights and every new attempt just had me get better. Here, it just caused frustration as it felt like it was out of my control.
Post edited May 19, 2011 by Vitor121796
Posted May 19, 2011
I beat it in about 5 try's on normal
Posted May 19, 2011
POSSIBLE SPOILERS!

This was seriously one of the worst boss fights I have seen in a long time.
A few times dying before I actually figured out what was going on (I mean common, you get one-shotted if you don't move within 2 seconds after the cutscene ends, I really lol'ed. Get serious...)

Then another death because I didn't press space at the exact moment CDP wants me to press it (sorry but I realy find these QTE's a rediculous kiddie game mechanic, and completely out of place in an adult-oriented "rpg").

And then a few more deaths because it was so over-obvious what you had to do after the 3rd tentacle. It was only after a while when i saw this big signpost saying: "you don't have to fight it anymore. Just run up the ridge on the left, all the way up to the centre of the monster, and we'll make your character drop a grenade down his throat for you in a fancy cinematic". (/sarcasm off)

All in all about 10 deaths and around 30-45 mins of frustration. What a blast!

Gz for everyone who did this in 3-5 tries.
Gz x 2 for all the e-peens who did him in 1-2 tries on hard/insane

That aside I think that it's already clear that alot of players were not very amused with this part.

Presentation/spectacle: 10/10
Design: 0/10
Posted May 19, 2011
Here I can see a lot of people complaining that people that can't past the bos fight are poor gamers.
I'm sorry to ruin your etricate point of vie, but some players may be gamers of strategic/tactic/RPG games without the reactions of a platformer gamer.
I do enjoy a lot a good rpg or a good strategic game that doesn't involve my capacity to click at the good moment.
I do enjoy rpg where the skills of the characters are only the skills of the character and not the skills of button mashing of the player.

Thus, I can say without any kind of dishonnor that this fight is pretty difficult. I've only tried four times without success and I feel that those that chose to play at easy difficulty should get easy fights and not difficult fights. It's not impossible to scale boss fight depending on the difficulty chosen for the game : those that rather play on hard have a hard fight, those that play on hard get an hard fight.

So, to all people thinking that this fight is easy, good for you and let's talk agin about this in twenty years when you will be older and will have bad reflexes. You will be on the side of those that are regularly insulted by the young one that will explain you that you are not a true gamer whereas they still have milk that split from their nose.
Posted May 19, 2011
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Archimbaud: Here I can see a lot of people complaining that people that can't past the bos fight are poor gamers.
I'm sorry to ruin your etricate point of vie, but some players may be gamers of strategic/tactic/RPG games without the reactions of a platformer gamer.
I do enjoy a lot a good rpg or a good strategic game that doesn't involve my capacity to click at the good moment.
I do enjoy rpg where the skills of the characters are only the skills of the character and not the skills of button mashing of the player.

Thus, I can say without any kind of dishonnor that this fight is pretty difficult. I've only tried four times without success and I feel that those that chose to play at easy difficulty should get easy fights and not difficult fights. It's not impossible to scale boss fight depending on the difficulty chosen for the game : those that rather play on hard have a hard fight, those that play on hard get an hard fight.

So, to all people thinking that this fight is easy, good for you and let's talk agin about this in twenty years when you will be older and will have bad reflexes. You will be on the side of those that are regularly insulted by the young one that will explain you that you are not a true gamer whereas they still have milk that split from their nose.
Well, actually the fight IS pretty easy once you've died a few times figuring out what to do.
I don't have good reflexes either, but you don't really need to have those to spam the dodge keys.

I have to admit that it was frustrating figuring out how to beat the fight, especially since Sile gives you really obvious advice at the start, then says nothing when you could actually use some tip about the bridge.
Posted May 19, 2011
I'm sorry, but even spamming the dodge button, I get killed just after two tentacles disabled.
But it may be just me, and that other guy, and other people. We just are bad in gaming and just should play other kind of games that are less action oriented.
Posted May 19, 2011
Just finished it on hard.
Seriously fucked up scheme.
I died like 30 times and if I wouldn't know that you should run and throw that granade (thx to previous post) I would be still loading savegames...
How anyone could know that Geralt had that grenade?
No word about it in journal nor bestiary.
They should use that sorc to give more hints besides 'try to lure tentacles to yrden".
And those qte was also retarded.
RPM sign showed for 0.2 sec or such and space was 2/2 pixel size good luck to see in the middle of the fight, on some angles they weren't visible at all thx to sunrays, at least on high detail graphics with all those fancy light effects.

I wonder how beta testing looked alike, there was no complains about that?
Doubt it, or rather I doubt CDP have done any serious beta testing, at least gameplay wise.
I wish there won't be more of such events later on...
Posted May 19, 2011
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Archimbaud: I'm sorry, but even spamming the dodge button, I get killed just after two tentacles disabled.
But it may be just me, and that other guy, and other people. We just are bad in gaming and just should play other kind of games that are less action oriented.
You should calm down a bit. I never said you were bad at gaming. I must have died at least 15 times beating that boss.

It's just that once you die enough times to understand what you need to do, then beat the fight easily in one go without getting hit once, you feel a bit silly for dying that much.

The kayran is not so much a boss that requires good reflexes as a one that requires knowing the exact sequence of things you need to do to beat it.
Posted May 19, 2011
yeh it took me a few times to figure out where to go when it was throwing rocks. i basicly hid behind the pillar and looked round while i was safe. eventually thought it might want me to go up the fallen bridge but it really looked like it would have a barrier, bad level design methinks.
Posted May 19, 2011
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desktoppirate: yeh it took me a few times to figure out where to go when it was throwing rocks. i basicly hid behind the pillar and looked round while i was safe. eventually thought it might want me to go up the fallen bridge but it really looked like it would have a barrier, bad level design methinks.
All the fight would need to be more palatable at the end is Sile telling you about the bridge.
Not that hard to add imo.
And a bit annoying that she shouts lots of useless stuff but not how to finish the fight.
Posted May 19, 2011
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desktoppirate: yeh it took me a few times to figure out where to go when it was throwing rocks. i basicly hid behind the pillar and looked round while i was safe. eventually thought it might want me to go up the fallen bridge but it really looked like it would have a barrier, bad level design methinks.
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mystral: All the fight would need to be more palatable at the end is Sile telling you about the bridge.
Not that hard to add imo.
And a bit annoying that she shouts lots of useless stuff but not how to finish the fight.
agreed. i think the biggest throw for myself was that there were no visual clues at all. it was angled completely away from the player. but yeah the simplest way to fix this would be sile just shouting "climb the fallen bridge, witcher", or something.
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The Witcher 2Kayran boss fight = awful design (no spoilers)(78 posts)(78 posts)
(78 posts)