Hi!

I don't undertsand something about DFC: is Kian gay at all events independently to our choices? My choices were he kissed Anna at Book 2, and tried to kiss her at beginning of Book 5, but in a rowboat he told to Crow, he's gay and not mating with women. It makes me nonsense.... :S

Kian is gay, always.

The choice in Book 2 was just to "let her" kiss Kian; and the choice in Book 5 would get you the "douchebag" achievement on Steam. :)

Yes, Kian in Dreamfall Chapters is gay from book 3 to book 5...
we know it was in love with April on Dreamfall TLJ... and it seem not gay on book 1 and 2.

I know... it feel forced (compared to the other gay relationship on dreamfall... like Hanna and Abby)... but they make it clear that Kian now is gay and you cannot change it because gay people are gay from birth (according to the authors)... That is because if a gay could change sexuality he would be a disease and it is not.

I have nothing against gay, and I don't think be gay is a disease... but I think people change during their life (and I want to be free to be straight, gay, bisexual or whatever the hell I want, changing whenever I want to change), I just think is not right to force people to change.
Also I think Kian was not gay on Dreamfall TLJ, I played it just few months ago and I'm sure it is a recent decision (I don't know if it was made before or after book 3... but I'm sure it was not made in the prequel).

Still after that point that is not a problem anymore (there is actually no real use of that information on the story). the real problem is that Kian is a boring robot (after the good book 1 introduction). Even with Crow Kian is really a boring character. I don't know if with Likho is better (I still have to play that path), but alone is not that great (every times you have to switch to Kian you want to finish it fast to play with Zoe).

Neither do I, but as you wrote Kian was not gay in Dreamfall, since something had started between April and him. On the other hand I liked to play the game that way Anna and Kian would have a relation. So it's a bit confusing to me. Btw I cannot agree with you more, I don't like much to play with Kian either, Zoe is much more interesting character.

Thanks for your answers!

Assumptions, assumptions.

In Dreamfall, we've seen how a man who grew up in a matriarchial society listens to a woman who talks to him in a voice of authority, and he senses a strange familiarity.

The first isn't surprising, the second isn't love.

Kian did praise some of the women in Dreamfall, again, not surprising considering his cultural background, but he never revealed his sexuality.

And of course due to the Lady Alvane conundrum, people got hell bent on the Kian/April romance idea back in 2006, and the thought lingered on. But it should have become clear by the first scene in Chapters already that it's not happening. :)

Still I don't think in a series like TLJ (where there was already a gay relationship) there was the need to hide the fact that Kian is gay.
I still think that in Dreamfall TLJ Kian was not gay. His character was just a warrior not interested in love. And when he meet April (that was an enemy) he start to develop some feeling.

Also if many people still cannot believe that, it is because is not clear at all.
Finally they decide to ask you if you want to kiss Anna... why? I have some hypotheses:
1. They had in mind a romance
2. They wanted to make fun of the player
3. They wanted to reinforce the idea of the warrior no interest in love
4. They wanted to create a contrast between his love for April (that was dead) and the love for the new character Anna (that was a spy).

When it is revealed that Kian is gay? During a conversation at the beginning of the book 3. It is no longer mentioned (except during a dialogue with Crow) and it does not in any way change the story and it is a question not connected with anything in the game world...
To me it seems clear what happened ... They did not know how to develop the story of Kian, they could not afford more paths (think also that book 3 is really short), they did not want to resurrect April... so they decide to create a new sexuality orientation for Kian... why? In this way they saved a lot of money by creating a mandatory path, they exonerated themself from making interesting Kian, they were able to get the unconditional support for raising a social issue (accusing anyone who disagrees to be against gay).

It may be that I'm wrong .... but in my opinion, Kian gay, was last-minute idea, an idea not at all obvious until book 3, an idea very convenient (for them).
And since this is a game I'm sure assumptions on a game of 10 years ago are not so wrong.

Most video game characters do not say if they are gay or not, because most of the time if there is no romance there is no need to say that... but in recent years it is fashionable to say "who you are".

Too bad there was no need to do that in this series since already in TLJ there was already a well-written normal homosexual relationship.

Kian, to me, seemed a forced character.

Correct. And that didn't change. If you think otherwise, please do name his love interest.

I can work with the idea that Red Thread Games, in those eight years between Dreamfall and Dreamfall Chapters, decided to make their main character a homosexual. But they could well do that, because as I've previously said, he didn't reveal his sexuality in Dreamfall at all.

It wasn't a last minute addition during Chapters though. And that is evident not despite, but BECAUSE of the Anna scene. Because of how player agency is framed here. In literally every other game, the choice would be to "kiss her".

The choice here is to "let her". If your following silly theory were correct, they would have had at least one serious Kian-Likho makeout scene.

I know how people are used to games like Mass Effect or Dragon Age, in which a homosexual character is pretty much defined by his homosexuality, in which the plot revolves around that homosexuality. Indeed, what we need in games are more characters like Kian in which the sexual orientation just is another character trait. Because only that way, it can be perceived as normal.

It's all too easy here to turn the situation around: April was heterosexual, but that doesn't change the story and isn't connected with anything in the game world. Zoë was heterosexual, but that's completely irrelevant. Just like with Kian, these protagonists are defined by their independence. Their sexuality just is, and doesn't matter at all. Okay, that's literally the silliest "they're SJW liars" conspiracy theory I have ever heard. :|

They made Kian gay to save money? That's your argument?

the fact is that Kian IS defined by his homosexuality because there is no real interesting character development with him beside that information.

Mass effect/Dragon Age are RPG where you actually decide if a character is gay or not, if he/she will get a romance or not. It is different.

Just think about Fiona in TLJ, she is gay (or better, since she is a girl: lesbian) but there is no forced message in your face, she just love another girl that's why you know she is lesbian. She is part of the story, she interact with April and she is a believable character.

Kian is not. Kian is a boring robot that at the start of book 3 say "I'm gay"... ok, well... you gave me this information for a particular reason?
the answer is no. there is no reason because there is no romance, story or something like that to say who you like...
it was a social message from the developer, forced inside dreamfall chapters because it is fashionable to put a message like that.

and yes it is ridiculus but I think that Kian is gay because of money.

I would have much preferred a Kian-Likho makeout scene, maybe in that way they could make an actual reason for that message to be there.

Their sexuality just is, and doesn't matter at all. That's why there is no reason to say "I'm gay/straight" if you don't want to make a romance or some sort of plot.
In fact, I'll tell you more. Instead of what they did during the book 3, it is much better what they did with book 5... a joke with Crow feel much more natural in the story compared to a "serious" (and boring) discussion on the city tower.

have you ever heard April / Zoe say "I'm straight"?
No... because there is no reason to say that.

Even Hanna and Abby relationship is really natural.

Kian is the only one that is forced.

Besides of course the forsaking of his religion and his culture, his continued contact with magicals and the slow evaporation of his racism, his approach to the guilt of having killed Likho's father, in part the abandonment of his arrogance, his opening up to new friends and finally, he is risking his life just to save a Dolmari boy.

Sure, no character development at all.

You're seeing two and a half short scenes in five entire Books as all encompassing and you're ignoring short of 80 scenes that have nothing at all to do with Kian's sexuality because you really want to.

Sure, we've seen a lot of it in a lot of dialogues.

I ignored the next sentence ... I have criticized Kian but I also made many example of gay characters that I appreciated, showing that I do not have any prejudice.
I think Kian is really boring in Dreamfall Chapters (during book 2-3-4-5... I think is an ok character in book 1 and Dreamfall TLJ), and I think the "gay message" make no sense in a series like TLJ.

If you can accept the idea that a videogame character can be criticized without accuse someone of gay-hate, you can try to explain why you like it... but if you just want to accuse I will not read your message anymore.

Fiona is disgusting character. She is like that friend, who like to tell to you how he fucked his girlfriend last night and how great she fucks.

I don't think you "hate gays". I think you're getting enraged by few scenes disproportionately because you're not used to this point of view, because the mere statement of Kian's homosexuality feels somewhat displaced to you, and because you're unable to put these scenes in the context of the very same treatment of heterosexual characters in a multitude of other games.

Zoë and April never had a reason to explicitly state their sexuality. Which was the case because their preferences are perceived as the norm. The very same is true for Kian - who only ever responded when it became relevant, and at the beginning of the story, not even then. I fail to see how that is wrong, or "forced".

But I 100% fail to see how it could save RTG money.

My experience is that at some point both homosexual men and women often decide to tell you that they are homosexuals even when there is no romance, story or something like that. My opinion is that the conversations which Kian had about his homosexuality were rather realistic.

I think, that you are wrong. I don't know if Kian was planned to be gay from start, but devs did never hide his sexuality. They just didn't rise the issue. As you've said, he was "a warrior not interested in love". Both in Dreamfall: TLJ and in Chapters.

Actually in Chapter 3 he said that he is not interested in women, but again he is interrupted before he could clarify, if he is gay or he is not interested in romance at all.

What is forced, I think, is his dialogue with Crow in the boat. When asked of his love interest, he says that he is a gay, like it's some kind of ultimate explanation. Well, in our world it would be, because of all these "gay movements", but in Arcadia there are no such things (at least nothing like that was shown). So it indeed feels like some SJW propaganda.

If instead the dialogue was something like:
- So, what was between you and April, did you mate and all...
- Listen, I am a warrior. If I will bind my life it wouldn't be a woman, but another like me. Only strong man, with whom I can <put some gayish stuff here>.
- Aha.... So, you are one of those, who are called gay guys?
- Yes, gay.

It would fit much better.

I've actually been talking to a gay man on another forum, and he said he thought this to be the most realistic scene of them all. Kian always had to be provoked to talk about his sexuality. Crow kept going on and on and on without pause, so Kian set the record straigt, three words, end of discussion. The man I talked to said that in conversation with the ignorant, that's what you do, set the record straight ASAP and as bluntly as possible.

As to the usage of the word "gay", the Arcadians are not speaking English and as such are not using the word anyway. They speak Alltongue, you're just hearing English, yet those words of course do not follow the same etymology/history and must be considered more of an approximation.


The concept of the "SJW", particularly after being so universally co-opted by American literal nazis like the Daily Stormer guys, is no kind of term that anyone should use in an ordinary conversation or to signify anything with meaning, thank you very much.