I am thinking of, perhaps, using a party like the following to attempt a full playthrough of the trilogy (with some changes along the way).

Note that I will be using the same legacy options as I have been: separate inventories, use unequipped items, and legacy xp. (Note that legacy XP makes wizards take much longer to level past 13 than other classes in BT1, but not in BT2, interestingly enough.) I will be using the intermediate character transfer option. (By the way, how does the game handle stats, HP, and SP with this option?)

For a starting party, I am looking at something like the following:
* Paladin. Elf for highest starting luck available. Will be the leader after the early game; the luck bonus helps with running away, which will be useful for clearing BT1 and getting the Dreamspell as early as possible in BT2 (especially after getting Speedboots). Will be aiming to max luck early. Will likely be retired or made into a Geomancer eventually.
* Monk. I *think* Dwarf for highest starting constitution available (for HP gains, since monks get worse HP gains than other fighter-types). With access to BT1 items, a Death Dagger can allow this character to be viable in Malefia (assuming the game lets me keep it); equipment can be chosen for accuracy at that point (drawback of giving a Monk a weapon is that they will lose their innate to hit bonus).
* Hunter. Human for highest starting dexterity and luck. Dexterity will be maxed out early in order to get high critical rates, which is important in BT1 and BT2. Luck, while not that important in the first two games, is crucial in BT3; in the remaster, a BT3 hunter can never have enough luck. (Luck affects the accuracy of ranged attacks; I have been having trouble getting them to hit!)
* Bard. Hobbit for high starting dexterity and luck. Luck affects the success rate of breath attacks, which is useful in BT1 and late BT3 (see also Kiel's Overture); having high luck at the start will allow her to act as the leader in the early game, before my paladin gets her luck up.
* 3 spellcasters, as follows (numbers indicate spell levels, not experience levels, before class change):
1. Conjurer 7 -> Magician 7 -> Sorcerer 7 -> Wizard (7 -> Archmage in BT2). This character will be a clasic archmage setup, learning every spell and also being able to wield the Death Dagger (possibly being able to go in the front at the end of BT1 and BT2?). Drawback is slow late-game leveling in BT1 (remember, I'm using legacy xp).
2. Magician 7 -> Sorcerer 7 -> Wizard 6 -> Conjurer (7 -> Archmage ? -> Chronomancer). This is my fast leveling character. 7th level Wizard spells don't seem that importaint; WIZW is overkill in BT1, and in BT2 becoming an Archmage gives immediate access to Rimefang. Not having all spell levels is a non-issue in BT3, when I make her a Chronomancer.
3. Conjurer 3 or 4 -> Sorcerer 5 -> Wizard 3 or 4 -> Magician (7 -> Archmage?). This is probably the most unusual setup here. In BT1, she gets all the important attack and healing spells; the only one not learned and not obsolete (other than revival magic) is WIZW, which as I mentioned is overkill in BT1. It also has the significant advantage of getting MIBL, which is very useful in BT1 (not so much in 2 or 3), early. (Also, don't forget that LOTR makes early dungeon exploration less dangerous.) The reason I am considering Wizard 4 is Animate Dead; while it can no longer be combined with DISP to bring back a dead character, it still allows that character to revive themself if they're the only one with Beyond Death. (Maybe I should do a topic on the quirks of this particular, often overlooked, spell.) This character will likely be replaced eventually, either with a summon or a Rogue, depending on my needs.

The Rogue will come later; BT1 doesn't have large enemy-filled anti-magic zones, and in BT2 a bard song can deal with traps. Furthermore, a hunter with ranged weapon can take down enemies at long range, as BT1 and BT2 enemies have poor saving throws. (I will want one for BT3, of course.)

So, how does this sound? (I am especially curious about what you think of that third spellcaster, which is an unconventional build that aims for getting useful spells early rather than eventually learning every spell; in other words, this character is built for the short term, not the long term. A similar idea I have, that would be used if starting the BT2 remaster from scratch, is to aim straight for Archmage; in the remaster this gives early access to Rimefang and will allow the character to learn the Dreamspell with significantly less total XP.)

Your classes almost match my main party, except I had a Rogue instead of a Hunter when I started.

Why not make the Monk into your Geomancer? Your Paladin can use a weapon that will auto-kill most creatures (Stoneblade), and your Monk/Geomancer can then start equipping weapons that will let them do the same thing. If you do retire the Paladin, what would you replace them with?

I don't know about the Death Dagger trasnferring over, but I can't imagine that it doesn't. My Bard equipped with the Spectre Snare from BT1 all throughout BT2 and 3, mainly for the AC bonus. The Sword of Zar also transferred over from BT2, so I would think that any (Non-Destiny Wand segment) equipment will transfer over.

I've never done a spell caster that didn't go 7/7/7/7, but that's just my OCD, I suppose. If you're playing Legacy mode, is the Dreamspell a Sorcerer spell or an Archmage spell? If I remember correctly, it was a Sorcerer LVL 7 spell in BT2, but I don't know if they changed that in the Legacy remaster.

From what I can tell, none of the legacy options actually change anything about the spells other than which spells are available; for example, in legacy BT3, Restoration is still only 12 SP, not 25 as in classic BT3. Hence, I would expect the Dreamspell to still be an Archmage spell in the legacy remaster. (I discovered this detail with a bit of save hacking.)

Also, I am not using the Misc. Game Differences option, which is the one that, among other things, restricts the spell selection to those originally availabe in the game.

(Incidentally, I think it would be nice to have a legacy mode that would restore the original balance of spells; also, perhaps a legacy Dreamspell option, that would make the Dreamspell a level 7 Sorcerer spell again and remove the sidequest (and the Harmonic Staff in the process), would also be nice.)

(By the way, speaking of hacking, it's fun using the Staff of Gods (casts Jolt Bolt) or the Kiel's Overture song against those 396 Berserkers in BT1; it's not even close to being balanced (especially if you add Spellsong to the mix, though that doesn't really matter at this point), but it's fun, at least for a short time. Those BT1 monsters will never know what hit them!) Fortunately, I don't actually have to make that decision for a long time. The first time you visit the Review Board after killing Brilhasti, all non-casters in the current party are advanced to level 35 instantly, including anyone who wasn't in the party at the time you kill Brilhasti.

If the game lets me keep the Death Dagger, I can give it to the monk, giving me a character with superb AC and the ability to OHKO enemies in melee.

Also, I don't see any significant advantage of Paladin over Geomancer at the point Geomancer is available.

By the way, speaking of keeping BT1 items into later games in the series, there's one thing I'm wondering; if you use the Travelhelm to escape a death snare in BT2 (remember that items work in anti-magic zones in the remaster), does the game properly end the snare, or does the game still think you are in a death snare? (I remember that the DOS version had a bug where getting the 7th segment didn't clear the snare flag, so I couldn't save or pause until I went back to the adventurer's guild.)

In recent years, I have been considering the idea of *not* always looking at the long run when playing these sorts of games. It is common for players to focus on how strong the party will be at the end of the game, and not considering how they'll get there, and I am sort of trying to get away from this mindset a little. It's worth noting that the endgame isn't always the hardest part; in BT3, for example, I think the Brilhasti fight is probably the hardest fight in the game, particularly if you want to win it early (which saves a *lot* of time).

Another example is in Wizardry 8, where I have stopped saving all of my Bishop's spell picks for high levels; it's more fun when I can choose intersting spells early on, even if it means I can't get every high level spell. (Many of the high level spells in Wizardry 8 are boring (plain damage), not that useful, and/or redundant, so you don't really need all of them.)

I think this change in mindset comes, in part, from watching speedruns of various games. I haven't seen any speedruns of the Bard's Tale series, but I could see a non-maxed spellcaster being useful in them, particularly BT2. In BT2, you need an Archmange to beat the game, but it might not be worth getting the 1.3 XP needed to max Wizard, and the higher level spells aren't *that* useful (SPBI, which is 5th level, is probably the most useful from a speedrun perspective). On the other hand, in some classic versions, maxing Sorcerer could prove worthwhile just for the Dreamspell that you'd use outside of combat. (Interestingly enough, in the DOS version, it might make sense to get Segment 7 first, as you can get the Dreamspell allong the way and use it to get the others.)

In any case, non-maxed spellcasters open up some interesting strategies anyway, and you can replace them with new casters later; once your first party is powerful enough, it's easy to get new characters up to speed (as long as your levels aren't too high and you haven't already used up the Brilhasti boost). In the remaster, a party of 6 monsters and 1 low level character can kill fairly strong enemies, and monsters don't take a share of XP in the remaster, allowing it to all go to the new character. (That's how I got a new character to 3/3/3/3/3 in the BT3 remaster to check the Chronomancer requirements; 6 Kringle Bro's have no trouble killing the enemies in UnterBrae.)

Started with this party, and with the third caster, have gone Conjurer 3 -> Sorcerer 5 (just got Mind Blade). I am considering just skipping Wizard entirely and having her spend the rest of her career as a Magician; the low level Wizard spells aren't *that* important (ICES from Magician 7 is almost as strong (and is plenty strong in BT1)), and she'll be able to get REST and ICES sooner that way, not to mention higher levels for MIJA and MIFI.

On the other hand, the first few levels of Wizard are faster than high levels as Magician.

Bit of a dilemma here...

With that said, it will be nice having Mind Blade this early; should make those level 2 catacombs fights (except those woth Blue Dragons) go by easily when I am willing to spend the SP.

Edit: I think I'll actually go with Wizard here so I can play with spells I wouldn't normally get this early, even if the attack spells might not be as useful as ICES. Don't know how long I'll keep her in this class; I am considering maybe even going as far as SPBI (Wizard 5), which is probably my favorite spell in the series (though sadly not as good in the BT2 and BT3 remaster because you can no longer save monsters at the guild). (By the way, in BT2 has anyone gotten that spell to work on Lagoth Zanta? That is the only enemy that I have not been able to bind into my party in the DOS version.)

Think I'll get SPBI with my early Wizard, and then replace her with a Soul Sucker for the rest of BT1.

Apart from the Paladin switching for a Warrior (practically the same) this was my pick for playing through the remastered version too.

The triple spellcasters are just brutal for the big fights, but I honestly found the party simply too strong from maybe mid-way through BT1. [see comments below] Replaying through the remastered games now, I've actually found them way too easy. Predominately, this is because I took the view to always fight every fight (unless party at risk of ruin), as this was the key lesson I remember from when I played the originals as a kid. This means my party has been too powerful ever since mid-way through BT1.

The root cause of this is that the way the party abilities, monster damage and XP, and items scale in the BT series, resulting in grinding paying huge dividends. If the inherent model was exponential growth of these factors between dungeons, then extra grinding in one dungeon would not give much of a benefit in future dungeons, keeping the game consistently challenging (per the design).

The corollary to this similar to the speedrun concept, but more based on difficulty rather than time - how low can you get the combined levels of your party be, but still manage to successfully complete the games?

If you're playing the remaster, and you find that your party becomes powerful too quickly, it might make sense to start over with the legacy experience option; this will slow leveling down to the original rates (it follows DOS for BT1, but Apple 2GS for BT2). (It also reverses a few intentional design choices that I disagree with.)

As for how strong you need to be:
* For BT1, you need to get to Mangar and defeat him; in classic versions, a Paladin with high Luck (and a Luckshield) would allow you to run from everything; in the remaster, you'll need Speedboots (available as a drop on Mangar 2 IIRC). Then, run from everything on the way to Mangar, then defeat him.
* For BT2, you'll want Speedboots, but once you have them, the only enemies you need to kill other than the final boss can be hit with SPBI (except the Vampire Dragon). So, get that spell and make an Archmage, and you're set. The Stoneblade (found in the Grey Crypt, whose level 1 encounters aren't that bad) will let you kill the Vampire Dragon, or in some versions (DOS and remaster, but not 2GS) you could use the Spectre Snare from BT1.
* For BT3, you need a Rogue to hide in shadows, some casters to NUKE the enemies (note that this spell has no level requirements, and neither does DIVA), and perhaps someone to wield the Strifespear, and things should be manageable. Given my current understanding of the Remaster's mechanics, a level 1 Rogue with the Helm of Justice should be able to backstab Tarjan, though you will likely need to boost their accuracy.

Also, I note that, once your level gets high enough, further levels don't provide much additional benefit. In the remaster, at least, to-hit doesn't improve with level (except for Monks), and saving throw doesn't improve past level 36 in BT1 and BT2. Also, your characters are maxed out offensively at that point, so the only things you get are HP, SP, and extra power for the scaling spells (which aren't that great). High levels are a bit more useful in BT3, where the saving throw cap has been removed (and where 36 is not that high of a level anymore, since you are boosted to level 35 rather early).

Thanks dtgreene - you are a font of knowledge for the classic BT's.

I'm quite surprised at the variances between the versions on different platforms; although some sound like bugs, others appear quite intentional changes. I suspect many of the ports weren't done by the same team in that case.

You're welcome.

Here are some of the more interesting differences, which I am pretty sure are bugs:
* In the DOS version of BT2, and your Spellsong ends, your light goes out. However, Watchmood Melody, which is supposed to give you light only as long as it is being played, will not cause your light to go out when it ends. (In other words, if you play Watchwood Melody, then stop playing it, you can keep the light it provides.)
* In the DOS version of BT2, if you are an antimagic zone and an enemy tries to use a missile attack against you, it will fizzle. ("throws a spear at $NAME but it fizzled!")
* In the Amiga versions of BT1 and BT2, from what I've read, extra attacks are given to the wrong classes. Warriors don't get extra attacks (making them useless), but Bards do.

By the way, the Dreamspell situation was sort of interesting, mainly due to the fact that some versions let you select spells with the mouse instead of entering the code. In the DOS version, if you scroll down to the bottom of the Sorcerer list, there is an empty slot corresponding to the Dreamspell; if you try to cast it (whether with mouse or by entering the code), the spell will fizzle unless you've stepped on the square which teaches you the code. In the Apple 2gs version, the spell isn't castable with the mouse, but the code will work even if you haven't stepped on that square. (It's interesting how the DOS and 2gs versions look similar, but seem to be very different internally; the DOS version even has a different character data structure!)

I'm thinking my BT3 party this time might look like the following (weapon choices in parenthesis, ignoring artifacts or Malefia-only equipment):
Monk -> Geomancer (Death Dagger after class change)
Hunter (Diamond Dagger with Sword of Zar)
Bard (Spectre Snare or Death Dagger, Lak's Lyre or Galvanic Oboe for infinite songs)
Archmage (Death Dagger, yes this will be a front line character)
Rogue (Thief Dagger -> Death Dagger (after getting Thieves Hood))
Archmage (Conjurstaff)
Chronomancer (Conjurstaff)

Before you suggest it, note that Chronomancers can't equip the Death Dagger for some reason. (If you change class with it equipped, you keep it equipped, but once you unequip it, you can't re-equip it.)

So, how does this sound? Do you think a front row Archmage will work?

Edit: I should mention that the Death Dagger can drop in Bard's Tale 2 (probably earlier than it should, actually), but not in Bard's Tale 3 for whatever reason. In fact, none of the BT1 only items drop in BT3, even though they drop in BT2 (Spectre Snare excluded).

Your party seems fairly good. My OCD required that I take the same party from BT1 all the way through BT3, so I had to run a Rogue in the first 2 games. It's actually pretty convenient, as he automatically disarms and opens every chest we find and is occasionally useful to kill things by sneaking up on them.

I'm regretting bringing my Monk. Monks are pretty useless in BT3, and the low HP makes her a sub-par Geomancer, although it's not a major issue. If I were starting over, I'd go Paladin, Hunter, Bard, Rogue, 3x spellcasters. I would absolutely convert 2 of my casters to Chronomancers, as you don't need more than one Archmage for the utility spells and Chronomancers get better damage spells until everybody switches to NUKE.

I'd put a Rogue in the front ranks over an Archmage. The Rogue still takes up a front rank slot when hidden, so he does the essential job of not letting your poorly armored casters get hit just fine. I'm in Malefia at the moment, and my casters still don't have -50 AC, while my Rogue does. So... yeah, Rogue in front of casters.

Rogue: Actually, in the BT2 remaster a Rogue is quite good for opening chests in the Grey Crypt, as Trap Zap no longer works on chests in anti-magic zones (it did in classic versions). On the other hand, hiding isn't something I did much in BT2, as a Hunter with the Sword of Zar was better for taking out enemies at a distance.

Monk: Actually, in BT3 I think Monks are quite good up until Malefia; 2k damage is enough to kill most enemies until then, and if needed DIVA can boost it further (and running out of Harmonic Gems is not likely to be an issue). The only drawbacks are low HP and saving throws, but the faster levels after changing to Geomancer (until they go back to 400,000 XP each, with one 450,000 XP level (using legacy XP)) will offset those. Also, if using an imported party in Malefia, the Death Dagger is also an option (though I don't know how whether that particular setup is accurate enough, assuming equipment favors To Hit over AC).

Front row Rogue versus Archmage: There are a few reasons I want to put the Archmage in front:
* To demonstrate that the setup is viable (or to at least see if it is)
* So that I can have 4 characters in the front row while the Rogue is hidden
* Archmages get more HP than Rogues; my Rogue had the least HP of all my characters, and it took a while for her HP to reach decent levels. (Hiding did help until then.)
* An Archmage can use the Death Dagger right away; a Rogue needs the "Hide bonus" effect, which ties up her weapon slot until later in the game.
* If I don't level up the character too much in BT2, an Archmage can get the Brilhasti boost in BT3 and end up with better stats than non-spellcasters; this yields better AC and To Hit. (I think I got the Archmage's AC down to something like -30 in a quick test on my old playthrough save (includes YMCA but no SHSH, bard songs, or combat-only effects IIRC); this did involve use of the artifacts, however.)
* (Of course, the front row Archmage is going to get priority over other Archmages for defensive equipment, including the artifacts (which also nicely boost To Hit) and Mage's Gloves if I can find them.)

Also, there are a few reasons for having multiple Archmages rather than multiple Chronomancers:
* Archmages can use the Death Dagger; Chronomancers can't, so I can use a Chronomancer in the front line. I still want an Archmage in back, so that's 2 Archmages.
* When using a transferred party, it is possible to have MAMA at the time of transfer (and leveling up in the BT2 remaster is quite fast due to the large amount of enemies per encounter (compared to what I remember)), whereas FAFI won't be available for another 3 million XP; in fact, if I don't get at least 1.2 million XP from battles before Tenebrosia (possibly even before Kinestia if I do that world in one go, as I tend to do), I'll have NUKE by the time I get FAFI. The Chronomancer's other attack spells aren't as strong as MAMA, except for DIVA which is something Archmages also get.
* Archmages can cure petrification without using DIVA, whereas Chronomancers can't. The one status ailment Chronomancers can cure but Archmages can't is one that doesn't prevent the character from casting the spell in the first place.