BT2 is one of the most difficult CRPGs ever.
Kudos to the first Bard's Tale "virgin" to complete the GOG version of it.

With or without googling? I'm pretty sure I "cheated" way back in the late 1980s when I played this because I had no idea how to solve some of the spectre snares, so I certainly wasn't an honest win even then.

Googling to solve snares is OK, I guess.

In that case I'd describe BT2 as primarily just a long thing.

Sure, some of the mapping is a bit over the top, and some of the dungeons will kill you a lot, but it's mostly just a matter of persisting.

Granted, there's more persisting required than in a lot of other titles. Bard's Tale 1 is a comparable walk in the park.

I finished it a long time ago on the Commodore 64 using the official clue book. I wish I still had that book, heh. I don't have the GOG version, but I have the same set for my Kindle Fire from the InXile Bard's Tale for Android, and the DOS versions from Ultimate RPG Archives. I miss having the clue books as the books were written as a story. The one from Bard's Tale 2 was especially a favorite.

Flynn

The cluebook is available as a pdf here:

http://bardstale.brotherhood.de/talefiles/2/docs/index.html

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I started it on the c64 in 1988, I think. My savedisk went unreadable in 89 in Dargoth's tower.

I was so pissed. When I got my Amiga 500 i hexedited my characters to the closest I could remember on the 64 and finished there, but the amiga version always seemed a lot easier, and also lacking in flavor (dungeon walls etc).

So I'm playing the c64 version now. I forgot how stupid some of the Death Snares are. I'm currently in Oscon's Fortress 2. Since the start of the Maze of Dread my melee characters can barely hit anything. I'm not sure if this is a bug, a design error, or really intended, but it's kind of draining my enjoyment to have characters become useless. I may put this aside a while and play something a bit more modern.

Really? C64 version had more varied graphics than the Amiga version?

As for your characters not hitting anything, make sure their AC is as low as possible, since it's their AC that determines their chance to hit.

The dungeon walls were less varied in nearly all the 16bit versions (pc, amiga st), although the IIgs got a fairly good treatment (the one we got in this game).

The monster graphics variety is about the same across the two, although I find I like the 'art direction' in the 8bits better. By the time BT2 rolls around, the animations in the PC/amiga/IIgs were notably superior, however.

I know it's the AC that determines to hit in bt1; though I'm not certain anyone's conclusively shown that in bt2. It's also unclear to me if anything beyond L+ helps. My bard hits a lot more than the others and he has the worst armor class, though they all show as L+. Basically I just have the Paladin and Hunter Use their Swords of Zar all the time, which at least hits.

Okay, I've done some testing with wearing different equipment, and I'm sure it will come as no surprise -- Bard's Tale 2 (in the c64 version) does still use the AC of the attacker to determine chance to hit. My paladin when naked hits monsters less often than when he is wearing some of his armor.

However, there's a bug. When I wear L- worth of armor, I hit pretty well. When I'm a good 11 points past L+ though, I start hitting for crap. So there's an overflow somewhere where good armor becomes bad again for to-hit purposes.

This is pretty annoying, and may well torpedo my will to complete BT2 on the c64. For the moment I just am having my paladin fight with no helm or gloves, i haven't figured out WHAT to do about my monk because her armor class is mostly not able to be manipulated. I suspect I could partly solve the problem by jettisoning my armor class song for the bard, that that would leave my hunter around L6 which seems like a bad policy.

Ouch! Another overflow bug in the Bards's Tale series?
I've already experienced an overflow bug with the Hunter's critical hit skill in the Amiga version of BT 1 and/or 2. He'll steadily get better at killing until he reaches lvl 15 or 16, at which time the chanses revery to that of lvl 1 and then it increases again each level.

If you are serious about the BT games I recommend using the 16 bit Apple versions. I think they are the most bug free, having nothing lost "in translation". And graphically they should be on par with the Amiga versions.

Well, the IIgs is "better", but as mentioned the dungeons in the 8bit have more variety. In the amiga and PC, dragons don't breathe, spells don't work properly dungeons don't work as designed etc. The IIgs version may work better but I'm not enthused about starting over right now.

The problem with the IIgs is I couldn't find an emulation environment in which things worked well. On Sweet 16, the game kept stalling. On KEGS, the music wobbles around something awful (kind of typical of IIgs software on native hardware really, so this may not be an emulation bug. The IIgs was just greatly underpowered.) Also i wanted to import my completed party to BT3, which it looks like someone wrote a utility for, but I didn't know that when I set out on this particular journey. But if I'm going to play bt3 on 8bit, I definitely want the c64 palette, not the apple 2.

Yeah I'm familiar with the 1&2 hunter critical hit ability overflow. Man these games sure seemed a lot more bullet-proof back in the day when I knew a lot less.

Well partly in response to your original query, I just finished it!

I basically just said F the to-hit issues, got some speedboots and avoided most combat in Oscon's Fortress and nearly ALL combat in the last two dungeons (no magic really weirded me out with my underwhelming to-hit issues).

Some of the 'riddles' still don't make sense to me, but I managed to answer them all this time around, that is.. apart from the Death Snares. Snares 3 and 4 just don't seem reasonable at all to me. 6 and 7 have a certain kind of logic if you're willing to give them thought and a bunch of tries.

Some of them, like the Sphinx seem pretty badly designed though. The Oscon snare also leaves the order unclear, I just started trying combinations.

Overalll, I think the puzzles are legitimately challenging, there are lots of enemies worth avoiding (though it's easy to do so) but the weapon-combat is unfortunately kind of buggy in the end. I'd say Bard's Tale 1 is definitely the stronger game in the balance.

Now on to 3.

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Uh as a decidedly second-time player I guess i totally derailled your thread :-O

Sorry

Even finishing it by replaying it is an achievement these days.
What I liked best about BT2 was the mapping challenges in some of the dungeons.
I don't recall much of the Puzzle Snares, except one with an old man, a torch and a toxic giant.

I assume you are aware of the bugs in some versions of BT3? It seems only the Apple version(s) are bug free, but there is an unoffical patch for the DOS version.

As for the dos version, I was reading the forum where drifting was posting when he was working on it.
I'm not aware of any bugs in the c64 version; in Gelindia currently and it's pretty smooth by comparison with with bt2. The puzzles so far make reasonable sense. The only problems I have so far are a kind of obnoxious choice in the design of the Festering Pit (not a big fan of those kinds of lateral things), and a lack of any sound when hitting a wall is going to make mapping darkness somewhat annoying.

Some of the mapping in the 8bit bt2 is a bit obnoxious. There are rooms full of antimagic (no compass), darkness, and spinners. A nospen ring didn't drop for me during the entire game so I I mostly just had to pray I eventually got out. Getting to some of the clues in Dargoth's Tower was similarly completely awful.

In some of them SCSI (scry sight) works, but in some it fizzles! Not sure how that's supposed to work.

Just has to ask. Which version of Bards Tale I-III is it in GOG version?