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So I've run into one of TOEE's many reported bugs.

My Ranger/Rogue took Weapon FInesse at Level 1, but somehow I did not select a weapon type for it. SInce there is no weapon type associated to the feat, I think the feat is basically useless (doesn't show up on the attack bonus). She has low Str but I hoped the high Dex could make her a suitable mainline fighter. But without Weapon Finesse (Short Swords) she is basically useless

I have confirmed that neither the levelup dialogue nor the starting character generation screen allow me to pick a weapon type for weapon finesse.

I'm playing with rthe Co8 and TemplePlus mods, which means the save editors out there probably aren't compatible with my save format. I also couldn't find any console commands to fix feats on google... but then again I could find many commands. Any ideas how I could fix this?

For now I will set her Strength higher with the console to give her decent attack, but I'd rather not have cheat the rules.

thanks in advance
Post edited December 29, 2016 by max.tucker27
This question / problem has been solved by Dreamteam67image
Weapon finesse only works if your PC has at least +1 BAB iirc. So your thief won't see the advantage till s/he is lvl 2.

It is a common mistake. I did the same thing and thought something was wrong till I re-read the feat description.

Weapons finesse is hard-coded to work with all light weapons and rapiers (see the in-game help for a comprehensive list). So it should work with a short sword, light mace or dagger AND longspear (which is a great weapon). Also, I think the type of armor you wear might limit the max bonus gained as well (not sure about this).

My common human thief build is to begin with point-blank shot and precise shot, and then take weapon finesse a bit later when the BAB is high enough. Combat Reflexes is another good one to get if you use a longspear and have high Dex.

If you ever want to retire a PC or add a new one, go to the Welcome Wench in Homlett and click on the book lying on the check-in desk.

Fighters start with +1 BAB at level 1 iirc, so you can add a new PC to experiment with it if you like.
Post edited December 29, 2016 by Dreamteam67
avatar
Dreamteam67: Weapon finesse only works if your PC has at least +1 BAB iirc. So your thief won't see the advantage till s/he is lvl 2.

It is a common mistake. I did the same thing and thought something was wrong till I re-read the feat description.

Weapons finesse is hard-coded to work with all light weapons and rapiers (see the in-game help for a comprehensive list). So it should work with a short sword, light mace or dagger AND longspear (which is a great weapon). Also, I think the type of armor you wear might limit the max bonus gained as well (not sure about this).

My common human thief build is to begin with point-blank shot and precise shot, and then take weapon finesse a bit later when the BAB is high enough. Combat Reflexes is another good one to get if you use a longspear and have high Dex.

If you ever want to retire a PC or add a new one, go to the Welcome Wench in Homlett and click on the book lying on the check-in desk.

Fighters start with +1 BAB at level 1 iirc, so you can add a new PC to experiment with it if you like.
Thanks! that was very helpful Good to know that you aren't supposed to pick a weapon type (even though the description seems to suggest it is specific to a weapon type).

I had my multiclass level 2 Ranger / lvl 2 Rogue take off all her armor and wield nothing but a shortsword while onehanded. She still used the strength modifier instead of the dex modifier in her attack bonus. She happens to be a halfling, so I tested with a few other weapons. She uses the Str modifier with most weapons (including shortswords and rapiers, but I haven't tested longspears) but with a dagger or halfling sianghan I can see that weapon finesse kicks in and she uses the superior +dex modifier. I'm guessing this is related to her size, and how a weapon that is light for a medium creature might not be light for a small one.

Moral of the story: small folk can't use their dexterity weapon on weapons that are "normal sized". My halfling has an insane dex modifier and I really did want to get combat expertise so I could get those sweet +6 AoO. I was hoping to have her dual wileding swords, but now it seems my selection is more limited. The dagger seems to be inferior to the shortsword in every sense (same crits, smaller damage die and range) or am I missing here? Even if she can use weapon finesse with longspears, it would be a terrible waste of the twohanded bonus feat from being a ranger (which I already selected). Does anybody have any recommendations on what weapons I should have her wielding?
I'm fairly sure as the game progresses, eventually the smith in Homlett sells weapons tailored to S-sized PCs. Maybe it is just armor? Honestly I can't remember, but check his offerings thoroughly anyways when he switches over to master weapons.

I wouldn't worry about it to much. Fighting with daggers isn't that bad, and you certainly don't need to min-max to win the game in ToEE. An easy way to get a magical dagger is to hire Furnok into your party, then get him killed and loot his stuff. Then you can reincarnate him if you like, or just kick him permanently from the party. You can eventually level-up a cleric or MU and learn to craft magic weapons, then you can add some of your own enchantments to the daggers.

IMO, 2-handed blades/polearms are superior to double-wielding, since they do higher damage to start plus in ToEE you do 1.5 x listed damage with 2-handed weapons, and you don't have the attack penalty as you do if you double-wield.

I am totally not sure about this, but check out spiked chain. I kinda remember reading about ppl playing a dwarf F/C multi wielding a spiked chain, so if it works for dwarves, maybe it works for halflings.

My advice would be to stick with whatever build you had in mind and learn from it. Just make sure to keep improving your tumble and bluff skills, so your thief can maneuver easily in and out of melee to backstab. You'll have fun.

EDIT: You will notice on p.96 of the manual, it talks about weapon sizes, which basically reiterates what you have already figured out. Also p.94 weapon finesse description says: "With a light weapon or rapier made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier...".
Post edited December 30, 2016 by Dreamteam67