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First.. I've been playing rpgs, both PnP and crpg, for as far back as I can remember. I cut my teeth on AD&D then moved on to Traveller, Call of Cthulu, Rolemaster, Merp and no matter how complicated (deep) they became (no d20 systems when I started playing), they were always intuitive and I NEVER had any trouble picking up a character, getting on with it and just picking it up as I played, even by the time I moved on to crpg (I talking REAL rpgs here, not the simple ones everyone seems to play these days) I was so thoroughly grounded in playing them I rarely had to use manuals except for explicit descriptions. (Drakensand still uses it's old, deep number based PnP ruleset and I've never even looked at the manual for that one)

But, oh FFS, Arkania uses such an obsure way of doing things, and not only that.. but it is mostly down right stupid, it's the first game I've ever come across where magic using is easier than melee weaponry.

Quite frankly the weaponry is idiotic, it's not simply a 'different way of doing things' is utterly counter-intuitive.. weapon classification is a joke.... brooms, maces, morningstars are included in CUTTING weapons and war axes are 2 HANDED SWORDS. and that's just a couple of examples of the stupidity that abounds. I mean what brain donor thought this made sense?.. And all this amount to my dwarf with an axe attack of13 in reality getting a 7/4

And all that is before I even mention how combat runs... fuuuuuu. each battle takes an aeon if you play it manually and if you let the pc do it there no way to separate ranged attacking and melee so effectively you get archers and magic users blocking the immediate squares around the enemy making the the melee fighter stand about waitng for them to die so they can get their shot..... yes it 'can' be done but only by stopping the combat and manually positioning everyone and all the while the enemies are getting free hits.

And the less said about trying to heal up, or raise the dead, the better.

It's not going to stop me playing it, because as stated I'm an rpg junkie... but jesus christ, not a nice system at all.

The ONLY saving grace these games have is that I bought them here, and they were dirt cheap.
Horrible and disappointing are major understatements. I know a lot of people don't like rpg's where they are forced to a well-trodden/mapped storyline. We'd all be playing platform style games if we did.

But if you took the time to make your own characters (have your stats in mind... hah! more like have your finger right there in the character appendix or else). That probably took you hours & hours &...

Then you start the game finally, and find out if you keep on moving every time you come to a closed bar (which by entering one is the only way I know of to actually start the adventure) you'll never arrive at an open bar. The different bars in town have posted hours that seem to be a little later than whatever time it is in the game, but all give out the same info.

The first city is ridiculously huge, but only has one dungeon (not a regenerating one). The field is not much better. There are a large quantity of cities on the map, but only a handful are remotely useful. This is not a dungeon crawler, as there are (seemingly) no dungeons... Seriously, check out a walkthrough. I did after wandering around for hours. I could have saved a hell of a lot of time ( and a tiny bit of money) if I'd know how tedious this game would turn out to be.
Give us an update after getting into the game a bit...I want to find out if It's crazy to enjoy this series...which it turns out I did after getting hip deep.
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Tormentfan: Quite frankly the weaponry is idiotic, it's not simply a 'different way of doing things' is utterly counter-intuitive.. weapon classification is a joke.... brooms, maces, morningstars are included in CUTTING weapons and war axes are 2 HANDED SWORDS. and that's just a couple of examples of the stupidity that abounds. I mean what brain donor thought this made sense?.. And all this amount to my dwarf with an axe attack of13 in reality getting a 7/4
This is actually more a problem of the English translation of the original German terms. The "Two Handed Swords" skill should actually be called "Two Handed Weapons" ("Zweihänder") and the "Cutting Weapon" skill should be called "Swinging/Slashing Weapons" ("Hiebwaffen").
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Tormentfan: Quite frankly the weaponry is idiotic, it's not simply a 'different way of doing things' is utterly counter-intuitive.. weapon classification is a joke.... brooms, maces, morningstars are included in CUTTING weapons and war axes are 2 HANDED SWORDS. and that's just a couple of examples of the stupidity that abounds. I mean what brain donor thought this made sense?.. And all this amount to my dwarf with an axe attack of13 in reality getting a 7/4
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zf.8: This is actually more a problem of the English translation of the original German terms. The "Two Handed Swords" skill should actually be called "Two Handed Weapons" ("Zweihänder") and the "Cutting Weapon" skill should be called "Swinging/Slashing Weapons" ("Hiebwaffen").
Now THIS I can understand... it makes FAR more sense now.

So it's the translators we should be giving a slap to then, not the makers. ;)
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Tormentfan: (Drakensand still uses it's old, deep number based PnP ruleset and I've never even looked at the manual for that one)
I suppose you meant Drakensang.
In defence of Realms of Arcania, Drakensang has a vast advantage here, since the developers could use the DSA 4(.1) rule-set instead of a mixture between DSA 2 and 3, often referred to as DSA 2.5 (which was the only one available back then).
The fourth edition is not only better suited for implementation with computers (a topic that is often neglected, but indeed very important), it even had some massive design influence by a more modern target audience.
That doesn't excuse for the massively flawed GUI in use with RoA (although it was Attic's first major game and they had no prior experience), but it automatically deals with some of what would be considered bad design today, like the harsh random character generation.
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Tormentfan: first game I've ever come across where magic using is easier than melee weaponry
I found quite a few games where this was the case, but the explanation is actually implementation issues in the case of RoA. The talent (and spell) test was adjusted to better work with the algorithm a computer uses, whereas melee attacks could be neatly implemented without altering anything.
I'm not sure how much knowledge on statistic the two main programmers G. Henkel and H-J Brändle could muster at that time, but while some spells would have had a roughly 3% chance of success in the pen and paper game, their computer adjusted algorithm ended up with a roughly 33% chance. That's the reason why you perceive spells as way superior in the computer game (though one has to note that while melee combat can be done with next to no regeneration phase, you'll have to invest time or money in order to regain 'mana').
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Tormentfan: And all this amount to my dwarf with an axe attack of13 in reality getting a 7/4
That is half intended and half a result of deprecated rules combined with tricky computer assimilation.
Different weapons (and armour) are supposed to reflect a difference in ease of use. Attacking and parrying with a sword in leather armour is a lot easier than with an axe clad in full plate set both in reality and in the game. The advanced rule-set would have taken both opponents weapons into account and dynamically calculate (dis)advantages, but I'm not sure if that part of the new rules was already available back then and if it was, it would have been tricky to implement (or at least less easy).
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Tormentfan: each battle takes an aeon if you play it manually
This massively depends on your party, or more specifically how much time you invested into what is commonly referred to as 'min maxing'.
I'm currently working on a thread that might (hopefully) help people avoid this issue if they encounter it. Most unfortunately, I'm still lacking some information and the forum where I'm hoping to get it is rather slow in generating a response ;)

All that should (and could) not cover up for the various flaws of the game, but I'm trying to explain why you might encounter what you're seeing and hope that it helps you to understand the circumstances.
I found that 3 games very entertaining. I played with the same party from part 1 to 3. I played star trail for 12 times :-D (not to be correct). I had 2 fighters, 2 mages(domination,combat), 2 elves and in advance mode. Just spend some time to read spells and you can go on adventuring. You can raise your dead characters at the temple by spending (day or two :-) ) by praying. And in temple of TSA you can also heal your chars. (useful for mages, they can heal up themselves and then make some meditation to replenish their mana). Yes and if you will play second part (star trail) leave one companion with endless waterskin and feeding amulet (cannot remember the name) and with important gear before lowangen because orcs will take all of your stuff before letting you into the city :(.
Post edited October 15, 2011 by maato
I can't help but compare these games to Might & Magic.

Might & Magic had a much simpler system, but did many of the same things. Basically, it gave you just enough where you got the idea, but it didn't bog you down with an obscure system that requires you to keep track of every little thing.

That said, I have to say that for me, it isn't the micromanagement that makes Realms of Arkania a bit of a chore, it's the Dark Eye system. I understand it, I'm just not used to it, and so I feel very out of my element and almost alienated.

The Dark Eye ruleset doesn't actually add anything to the game. There are so many ways I can think of to simplify this system without losing any of the simulation elements, so in the end, it just feels like it over-complicates things.

As a first-timer, though, I'm really enjoying Star Trail. I'm running a Thorwalian as my leader, a warrior, a dwarf, a huntress, an elf and a mage. I have no idea if my party will be able to survive, but that's sort of the fun!

Edit: I'd also make a comment about combat taking forever!

I don't think this has anything to do with min/maxing. I've min/maxed my characters and things still take forever to die.

But that's not the real issue for me. For me, combat just moves very sluggishly, and it feels clunky and unresponsive. Sometimes characters get in the way of each other, making it difficult to select them, and there's even some mild slowdown in Star Trail when spells are being cast. Pieces (I say "pieces" because it reminds me of D&D miniatures) move very slowly across the grid and overall, I don't like it. That's quite surprising.

It's another issue of, "I get the idea, you don't need to drill it so hard into my skull."

I'd probably like it a whole lot more if my Thorwalian was a warrior. I'm sensing some balancing issues here.
Post edited October 15, 2011 by Supertuft