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PrimordiaSome questions about the story.(Spoilers inside).(7 posts)(7 posts)
(7 posts)
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Posted February 03, 2018
Hi, guys, I have played the game(find it great) and I have got some questions related to the main story and the lore in general. Possibilities are that I have missed something or didn't understand. Shortly:
1. Why exactly Horus decided to abort his mission and didn't proceed with the destruction of Metropolitan and uploaded himself into the servitor robot a.k.a Horatio v1. Did it happen because at that time Metromind killed the humans in the Metropolitan meaning that his mission was to kill only humans not the entire population of Metropolitan?
2.Did the Tanatos virus attack only Metropolitan robots or also Urbanian robots? Means in the Tanatos ending pretty much all robots died or only those connected to the Metromind and from Metropolitan origins?
3.Would it be possible for Horatio to rebuild the Crispin and Clarity if the player chooses the Tanatos ending though it's not mentioned in the ending itself?
Posted February 05, 2018
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Rozenman: Hi, guys, I have played the game(find it great) and I have got some questions related to the main story and the lore in general. Possibilities are that I have missed something or didn't understand. Shortly:
1. Why exactly Horus decided to abort his mission and didn't proceed with the destruction of Metropolitan and uploaded himself into the servitor robot a.k.a Horatio v1. Did it happen because at that time Metromind killed the humans in the Metropolitan meaning that his mission was to kill only humans not the entire population of Metropolitan?
2.Did the Tanatos virus attack only Metropolitan robots or also Urbanian robots? Means in the Tanatos ending pretty much all robots died or only those connected to the Metromind and from Metropolitan origins?
3.Would it be possible for Horatio to rebuild the Crispin and Clarity if the player chooses the Tanatos ending though it's not mentioned in the ending itself?
Well, outside the four corners of the game, my opinion is no better than anyone else's, but here are my thoughts.

1. The opposite. The Horus decided to thwart its own programming to prevent killing humans.

2. There are two schools of thought. My own is that it is all robots (hence the moth dying), but the brilliant Starmaker makes a case for it only being Metropolitan robots (https://www.gog.com/forum/primordia/obvious_spoilers_who_has_finished_this_game_d/post37).

3. It would be technically feasible but, in my opinion, a Horatio who was willing to use Thanatos that way would not be one interested in rebuilding them. In my mind, that Horatio has become a destroyer, not a builder. (Note that Horatio can use Thanatos on Scraper and still rebuild them.)
Posted February 05, 2018
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WormwoodStudios: Well, outside the four corners of the game, my opinion is no better than anyone else's, but here are my thoughts.

1. The opposite. The Horus decided to thwart its own programming to prevent killing humans.

2. There are two schools of thought. My own is that it is all robots (hence the moth dying), but the brilliant Starmaker makes a case for it only being Metropolitan robots (https://www.gog.com/forum/primordia/obvious_spoilers_who_has_finished_this_game_d/post37).

3. It would be technically feasible but, in my opinion, a Horatio who was willing to use Thanatos that way would not be one interested in rebuilding them. In my mind, that Horatio has become a destroyer, not a builder. (Note that Horatio can use Thanatos on Scraper and still rebuild them.)
1.Probably I missed something because I understood the log(that one you will get after inserting the Metromind data in your scanner) in a way that the Horus stopped the mission because his detectors said that Humans in Metropolitan were dead. And that led to the false conclusion(looks like that now) based on some other factors.
From what I have seen in the game the purpose of existence is very important for robots. Well, we all know that unlike humans who struggle with the purpose of life all robots are built for something. And as I said their main purpose is very important to robots we can see it when in-game some robots who can't fulfil their purposes of existence block the data about it (Leopold, Primer even Horus itself) or even kill themselves (Arbiter, Charity, Memorious), they are pretty human in that sense because they act like humans who lost their sense to live. It's also reasonable to guess that only advanced machines can do this.
That was the reason why I was unable to get why would Horus abort his mission(we know he went into Humanism later when he was a Horatio so I doubt it was an attitude towards humans) aside from the explanation that after Metromind killed humans he had no purpose to function. As we can see he was built like a weapon of vengeance and the hate towards Metropolitan was hardcoded into him(Horatio tells that for some reason he detests the Metropolitan).
2.Got it
3.Well considering the Clarity attitude towards the law of Metropolitan yep it wouldn't make much sense to rebuild her after that xD As for Crispin, Horus could do this for practical purposes, you know you need more hands to rebuild the ship but also because of its loyalty ;3
But it would make sense for Horus to take all power source from Metropolitan and rebuild the ship with the other Urbanian guys, he would fulfil his purpose of existence and most likely they would have lots of energy for them;3
Post edited February 05, 2018 by Rozenman
Posted February 06, 2018
From what I have seen in the game the purpose of existence is very important for robots. Well, we all know that unlike humans who struggle with the purpose of life all robots are built for something. And as I said their main purpose is very important to robots we can see it when in-game some robots who can't fulfil their purposes of existence block the data about it (Leopold, Primer even Horus itself) or even kill themselves (Arbiter, Charity, Memorious), they are pretty human in that sense because they act like humans who lost their sense to live. It's also reasonable to guess that only advanced machines can do this.

That was the reason why I was unable to get why would Horus abort his mission(we know he went into Humanism later when he was a Horatio so I doubt it was an attitude towards humans) aside from the explanation that after Metromind killed humans he had no purpose to function. As we can see he was built like a weapon of vengeance and the hate towards Metropolitan was hardcoded into him(Horatio tells that for some reason he detests the Metropolitan).
I think Horatio's story is basically a long saga of the struggle to defy his basic programming and choose what he believes to be right even when he was hard-wired to think it's wrong. (In that sense, it is the struggle of human history.) The first step was self-destruction, the second was the kind of eremite/hermit existence that early Christians undertook to escape from sin, and the last is an engagement with the world based on his new ethical code. Throughout, he's struggle against the temptation to relapse into violence/hatred: every act of creation, every act of kindness, by Horatio is an act of defiance, which is why he's so begrudging about all of them. :) It's no accident that when the HORUS rises again in the best ending, it is crewed by robots from Urbani, Metropol, and Civitas.

Horatio's Humanism -- first in the sense of "a quasi-Christianity in which Man is God" and later in the sense of "an ethical system that centers on [sentient beings] and their values, needs, interests, abilities, dignity and freedom" -- is the flowering of the seed the HORUS planted when it declined to destroy Metropol. For Horatio to destroy Metropol is not just to "complete his mission" but to uproot that seed.

Perhaps this is too flowery and self-important... but anyway, the gist is that HORUS rose above instinct into reason, and basically deduced ethics.

I'm sure Starmaker could put it plainer, better, and clearer than I can, but I think she's moved onto bigger and better things than expounding our little game's lore. :)
Posted February 06, 2018

From what I have seen in the game the purpose of existence is very important for robots. Well, we all know that unlike humans who struggle with the purpose of life all robots are built for something. And as I said their main purpose is very important to robots we can see it when in-game some robots who can't fulfil their purposes of existence block the data about it (Leopold, Primer even Horus itself) or even kill themselves (Arbiter, Charity, Memorious), they are pretty human in that sense because they act like humans who lost their sense to live. It's also reasonable to guess that only advanced machines can do this.

That was the reason why I was unable to get why would Horus abort his mission(we know he went into Humanism later when he was a Horatio so I doubt it was an attitude towards humans) aside from the explanation that after Metromind killed humans he had no purpose to function. As we can see he was built like a weapon of vengeance and the hate towards Metropolitan was hardcoded into him(Horatio tells that for some reason he detests the Metropolitan).
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WormwoodStudios: I think Horatio's story is basically a long saga of the struggle to defy his basic programming and choose what he believes to be right even when he was hard-wired to think it's wrong. (In that sense, it is the struggle of human history.) The first step was self-destruction, the second was the kind of eremite/hermit existence that early Christians undertook to escape from sin, and the last is an engagement with the world based on his new ethical code. Throughout, he's struggle against the temptation to relapse into violence/hatred: every act of creation, every act of kindness, by Horatio is an act of defiance, which is why he's so begrudging about all of them. :) It's no accident that when the HORUS rises again in the best ending, it is crewed by robots from Urbani, Metropol, and Civitas.

Horatio's Humanism -- first in the sense of "a quasi-Christianity in which Man is God" and later in the sense of "an ethical system that centers on [sentient beings] and their values, needs, interests, abilities, dignity and freedom" -- is the flowering of the seed the HORUS planted when it declined to destroy Metropol. For Horatio to destroy Metropol is not just to "complete his mission" but to uproot that seed.

Perhaps this is too flowery and self-important... but anyway, the gist is that HORUS rose above instinct into reason, and basically deduced ethics.

I'm sure Starmaker could put it plainer, better, and clearer than I can, but I think she's moved onto bigger and better things than expounding our little game's lore. :)
Well it makes sense what you said and it,s pretty clear to me :) And I like these psychological and sociological aspects of the game.
Post edited February 06, 2018 by Rozenman
Posted February 07, 2018
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Rozenman: Well it makes sense what you said and it,s pretty clear to me :) And I like these psychological and sociological aspects of the game.
Thanks, and thanks for the nice review you left!
Posted February 07, 2018
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Rozenman: Well it makes sense what you said and it,s pretty clear to me :) And I like these psychological and sociological aspects of the game.
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WormwoodStudios: Thanks, and thanks for the nice review you left!
I had my eye on the game long time ago but was unable to play it due to various reasons. It's always good when something satisfies your expectations ;3
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PrimordiaSome questions about the story.(Spoilers inside).(7 posts)(7 posts)
(7 posts)