So this game has gotten to the enhanced version point which looking at the reviews fixs a lot but most still recommend mods paticularly turn based and inventory management. It also has several DLCs attatched to it, the only version that has them all listed is the Imperial one which is $60 at the moment.

So my question is that version worth the $60? What do the DLCs fix or add to the game? There is a lot of talk about mods for it does that mean there is player made content to extend the game? I can get a lot of worth out of games that allow me to add content or play other peoples content. This game has always had me hesitant to buy it as I hear a lot of negatives from both internet reviews and people I know personally. Mostly these have to do with balance and poor performance but they where all before the enchanced edition which I would hope the developers used to fix and improve based on community feedback'. but sometimes it just seems they are cash grabs.

So what say you worth it or wait for a sale on one of the major platforms?

1st of all - wait for sale if you can, the game is on sale like every other month.
DLC's mostly add content and some character options. I can't decide for you if that's worth it.
Generally, I'd advise going imperial on sale since it's roughly the same as explorer+season pass, but you do get some extras in case you'd ever want them.

Game is good. Probably the best RPG released in a decade or so, if you ask me, but it sure isn't perfect and doesn't have casual mass appeal of something like DoS. It also doesn't do a great job of explaining much of anything, so either some prior knowledge of DnD 3.5/PF or extensive diving into the srd/phb would be required.

Is it really $60? I bought it some weeks ago at full price, shortly before it went on sale, and paid around $40 for it. Maybe this is due to weirdness with regional pricing, but that is hard to believe too, because I live in Scandinavia and we typically have the highest prices. Right now the page gives me $38.79 (see image).

The game itself is marvellous though, so would be worth even $60 (but wait for a sale if it really does cost that). I hadn't heard about these guys before and missed all the stuff about the Kickstarter and game. But I've been genuinely impressed by what I'm seeing. Have one or two chapters left of the game, and I've yet to come across any bugs (apart from some spelling/grammar errors). For all the grief they got at release (I still see it in reviews), they fixed it up, and it's more than fine now.

I see many complain about lack of turn-based, which I find odd tbh, but then I prefer RTWP. Combat is smoother and more dynamic then, and I like that. Not played the DoS games, but turn-based became boring in Wasteland 2, as even simple combat took a long time. Anyway, there is a mod for that if you want it (no other mods are needed).

Agree with InEffect that it's the best (proper) RPG to be released for probably a decade -- or since Baldur's Gate 2. It does have a steep learning curve, though, no mistake about it, but if you have experience from BG2 or NWN2 it should be okay I think. I knew nothing about Pathfinder before going in and didn't even finish NWN2 (got too boring in the end) nor DAO (same, way too much grindy crap in the end, so I put it away), but it has mostly been fine. Character creation and level ups can be very hard to wrap my head around at times, and I do make mistakes, but nothing too horrendous.

Like all RPGs of this type, combat early on is brutal. Fetching some berries at level 2 was tough (you'll know why when you play it). Once you get some levels under your belt it becomes much more manageable, and by now it's kinda easy tbh (I'm currently level 14). The game doesn't have the same exhilarating mage-on-mage fights as in BG2, it's too easy to punch through them, but it's still a wonderful game. I've quite enjoyed the kingdom management aspect too. It gives a break from normal gameplay, and there are heaps of buffs it's possible to get.

That was more about the game itself. For the version, I too would recommend the Imperial edition. It gives you all the DLCs and other stuff you may like. The DLCs aren't a massive deal I think, but it's extra content and that is always good. If you get the game and like it, you'll probably want the DLCs anyway, and may end up paying more than if you get the Imperial edition right away.

Performance has been fine on my end btw, and the computer is on the rather old side (4670k CPU and GTX 770 GPU). Eventually tuned settings down from max everywhere, and it runs well (but in long sessions will eat up 8 GB of RAM). Early on it wasn't a problem, but now in the late-ish game the loading screens are longer and more annoying. Sadly this is an issue with heaps upon heaps of Unity games out there, so maybe it's an engine problem. Put the game on an SSD and it will help, but later in the game you will see 10+ seconds loading screens when going to a new map.

Anyway, I've had a ton of fun with the game, and basically played non-stop for several weeks, and there is still more stuff to do (the bottomless (?) dungeon ate me alive, so have postponed that one).

Thanks for the replies. It is interesting you are seeing it for $38.79 (odd price point), last time I looked it was around $40 but I don't think that was the extended version which is probably what has raised the price. I will likely wait for a sale though or it might wait on it some more as I do have a backlog of games I bought and have yet to play. There is also Wasteland 3 and BGIII early access that might take priority.

I have only played a few campaigns using the 3.5 rule set so probably would take some time to max/min a build, I have played D&D type games for some 35 years both in a PnP and CRPG format so I would probably be able to adapt. Interesting about seeing the turn based cs RTwP debate applied to this game. I had the impression it was turn based from the get go but the streamers I have watched probably had the mentioned mod being utilized. What level do you begin as? What is the level cap? I find that at lower levels CRPG using a modified PnP system play better with RTwP but as you gain more levels and get more tacticall choices a turn based system begins to show its stength. In BG II there is an option to enable turn base on a per round system, does this game have a similar option or just have to use the mod.

One thing not mentioned is the player created mods leading to player made content or is it just game adjustments?

I guess you can see for yourself: Pathfinder: Kingmaker Nexus - Mods and Community

You start as level 1, and the level cap is 20.

In the sequel, Wrath of the Righteous, they will have a turn-based mode too, so no need for a mod then. I'm quite puzzled by all the requests for turn-based everywhere I turn when it comes to RPGs, since I think it plays much better as RTWP. But maybe it's my lack of background with table-top that shows? To me it simply plays better as a computer game when it's not constantly broken up by a turn-based mode, and you waste so much time ordering everybody around and then seeing everybody act stuff out.

Anyway, with that much experience you'll have no problems picking up this game and understanding what's going on. I turned on the tutorial messages, and that helped a bit, but I think it would be really hard to start playing for somebody with zero experience from any D&D based game. There are so many phrases and rules, and very little explanation of them. I had to look up what DC meant for example.

I only looked through the first 3 pages listing 30 mods, I saw a lot of QoL stuff and classes added in. So I take it player made dungeons are beyonf the scope of what can be created?

You do have a valid point about RTwP versus turn based, I have been messing with BG II which is something I like to do every couple of years. It is amazing how more quickly things go with a solo or duo party, if it is lower level mobs or a fight I know really well I will buff up then just do basic melee and range attacks. If it is one of the tougher fights such as a Dragon or a boss I know has difficutly with a little bit of luck required. The system is flexible enough that I can use pause to set things up then unleash heavy damage from range combined with slow or hindering spells. Right now I am debating on what is stronger in that game a fighter/mage.thief or a fighter/mage/ceric one has an incedible ability to buff them selves up to a ridiculous leve the other has a ton of utility to it.

I also compare it to Wasteland 2 that I have been playing quite a bit that can have some ridiculous long combats because of the turn based style it uses. I honestly think a toggle system to switch between RtwP and turn based would be the optimal.

If I can find the imperial edition for $30 I will definetely snatch it up but the $60 is just not what I want to risk on a game I think I will like but not a sure thing. I guess when you get older you are more frugal with your time and money or maybe you just realize how many games you have bought played a few hours and then never touched it again.

the game doesn't have mod tools. Everything that it does have is pretty much reverse-engineered. So, yeah, conversion mods or new content is unlikely to happen. IF they ever release mod tools for this game or the next - maybe. And even then it's a lot of work and will likely be out of the scope for most mod-makers.

Would be great if they released mod tools, but I wouldn't be too hopeful. Being a Unity game, it's also not all that easy to mod the game, because everything is put into a giant soup of bundles and whatnot. New locations and quests would be fantastic, but it's no small order. Modders able to do that pretty much have the ability of game developers. For many it can be a way into an actual job, like happened with several modders for the Witcher games. But I digress.

I played Wasteland 2 a lot as well, completed it 3-4 times. It was great fun overall, but I really didn't like the turn-based system for low level fights. Random encounters and so forth took a lot of time, despite for the most part being piss easy. From what I've heard, though, it will actually be possible to toggle it on and off in Wrath, so that sounds like the best of both worlds (as long as both options don't turn to crap because of it).

Thankfully Kingmaker has a crapton of difficulty customisation, and auto pause options, so I was able to get it roughly working like in BG2. Letting everything simply flow wouldn't be a good idea, I'd probably be dead in 2 rounds, but auto pause on spell cast for example is great -- and kinda works like semi turn-based I guess. And with melees doing a good job with AI on, they can just smash people up in easy combat with minimum input.

As an aside, I read over several pages of reviews on the game page today, and I'm surprised at all the negativity, even from recent reviews (so after the release bug hell). They don't resonate well with my experience, and I scratch my head at some of the stuff they wrote in there. Some valid points of course, I wish the itemisation was a bit more equal between different weapons for example, but overall they seemed too harsh. To me this is the best RPG to have come out since possibly BG2. Pillars of Eternity was good in their way, but everything was kinda flat and uninspiring due to the extreme focus on balance, and the fairly lousy weapons. Good games, certainly, but they didn't have that hard-to-pinpoint magic that Baldur's Gate had, and that Kingmaker to a bigger extent managed to recreate.

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This is definitely interesting (at least for me). For some reason the price for this game is fairly cheap in Norway, while we usually have at least US prices (and sometimes even more). Shows the prices in different regions (damn I hate this system).
[url=https://www.an-ovel.com/cgi-bin/magog.cgi?ver=978&scp=*AF&dsp=*AF&ord=&flt=iis~1432782902~&opt=*AF]https://www.an-ovel.com/cgi-bin/magog.cgi?ver=978&scp=*AF&dsp=*AF&ord=&flt=iis~1432782902~&opt=*AF[/url]

URL looks funky, but it's from a community maintained site with more info about games than on GOG's game pages. At least when it comes to detailed info about prices and whatnot. (edit: of course the lousy GOG forum managed to balls it up, and I've learned from experience that it's pretty hopeless to try to fix those things)

pillars 'flatness' comes from two things.
a) Sawyers obsession for balance. Which is fine, but at some point it comes at the expense of fun and that's where the problems begin. If everything is so sanitized that your choices are roughly equal - the choices don't matter and your don't get the satisfaction of getting it right. It's especially apparent in pillars2.

b) Bad writing. If they hired more talent and less pink hair for the job things would be better. Pillars 1 were not so bad. Pillars 2 had an obvious agenda and even if you agree it will be annoying soon enough. Also almost all companions are pretty one-dimensional with pretty much no personal growth.

PK has its own share of both bad writing and bad design, but it's not all there is and that's good enough. What most bad reviews stem from is the generation of 'everyone is a winner'. People expect to do whatever and still win on a 'difficulty that flatters their ego' as someone on steam forums said. Sounds pretty accurate to me. What needs to be understood is that most of the consumer base for this game is BG2/NWN1-2 fans. And most of those didn't finish BG1 cause it was too hard(spoiler: it was actually not). And BG2 and NWN1-2 are super-easy games that don't even try to challenge the player, so whoever comes from that place is in for a rude awakening.

There is also a certain percentage of people who can't run PK on their toaster, but I don't believe that number is high. I've installed and played PK on 4 different machines both intel/amd processors and nvidia/amd gpu's and never had a single issue with it when it comes to making the game run.

So when you say making the game run does this mean you had to adjust the settings for the different machines, not a dawback I would ding a game for just curious?

I got probably half way through PoE i and just lost interest, a lot of that had to do with loading screens it just seemed that there where so many to do simple things like rest in the headquarters area I remember there being 3 different screens.

I did finish BG I but the first half was such a slog as you where so low level that it was throw out the few spells you have then watch everyone flail around at targets then pause to heal followed by more flailing. This is one of my concens with BG III as they are starting at level one with a cap of ten, which is about when classes really start to take of. I agree that BG II was a lot easier as you begin at a level where classes are starting to take off giving you many more options of what you can do.

I can handle bad writing as most of the RPG that have come on the market for the past 30 years or so where defintely not at a Shakespearan level but where still able to move a story along. There where some that got me to buy in more like the first 3 games of the Mass Effect series but usually it is just a quick scan to get the major points and what action is required of me as the player.

Balance is an interesting concept that I agree has taken a back seat to fun in a lot of games. I would rather have the ability to make meaningful choices that might lead to an over powered build then to see an attempt where every choice is a valid one. If someone wants to challenge themselves they can choose to play in a way that their choices will make a "weaker" build that cant' just power through everything but takes some tactical thought and planning.

Have seen some other threads about speculation about why POE2 "failed", and there are about as many suggestions as there are people making them. Personally I don't have much faith in yet more SJW accusations. Rather I suspect it may be due to a spillover effect from POE1. They had wonderful timing for that game, and it happened just when Kickstarer was a new thing, people were fed up of all the streamlining and dumbing down of games, and yearned for "old school" RPGs. Everything came together for them, and they had a great campaign and raised lots of money.

Forward a few years and the game is released, and it turns out it's not really the Baldur's Gate successor that people hoped for. But that game still sold well because it was a return to those roots (we hoped). Next campaign comes up, and they made the poor choice of going for Fig (maybe ordered by Feargus?). They didn't raise as much money as they could have (I've heard the official sum is at least 50% from big sponsors, so not your typical kickstarter person). The game comes out, it has a somewhat odd setting with pirates. And again the story is a bit all over the place, (and maybe of less importance to the great masses) but again the itemisation is underwhelming and the extreme focus on balancing everything.

All in all, I think the main factor is that people didn't get what they hoped for with POE1, and the consequence was that fewer people were interested in POE2. Plus, many who bought POE1 probably didn't finish it, and then felt they wanted to do that before getting the sequel (with the import feature).

In the intervening years there had also been other RPGs, quite many actually compared to what had been the case for a decade, so maybe the more casual type player had gotten their fill.

The actual writing in the game I thought was fine or good. The problem is more prior to that stage, the whole universe or main story more generally. Some angry god stomping around, and direct communication with other gods, and a mishmash of soul "stuff". The whole thing is a bit weird, and there is only so much individual writers can do so salvage it, if the overarching narrative/story itself is weird and a bit hard to connect with. This was probably better handled in the first game to be honest, although not great there either, especially with the huge lore dump towards the end because they ran out of time (sure as hell hope they didn't plan for that lore dump at that point of the story).

It's hard to know exactly what of these (and other) factors played the biggest role, and it will be different for different people. But trying to be objective I suspect this spillover effect from disappointed buyers of POE1 was a big factor.


Mass Effect.... ugh. That series is such a sad story for me. Loved the first game. Then comes the second and they've bastardised the whole thing with plot holes you could comfortable fly the Sovereign through. Never bothered with the third game after that, I learnt my lesson, but from all reports it was even worse. They went for dumbing down the game (or "streamlining" as the euphemism is called) and tried to cater to the FPS crowd. Maybe that was a success in terms of units shifted, but for me it meant the end of the line in buying games from that company. I buy few games, and want quality, not yet another dumbed down crap with Awesome Buttons and fake choices.

It's a small example of the trend in the gaming industry. True quality is rare to find. It's about shifting units now, and doing every dirty trick in the book to get people to buy the games, and then waste money on content-starved DLC, or gambling boxes and microtransactions.

When something like Kingmaker then comes out, without me even having heard about them company, ruleset or kickstarter campaign before -- it was such a lovely surprise. Here's hoping the next game will be equally good (or even better), and that Owlcat won't imminently go down the same road of chasing the FPS crowd or other ways to dumb down the game and trying to sell 5 million copies or whatever. Focus on quality instead. Put your love into the game. There is still room for that kind of product. I hope....

Don't give much of a damn about the SJW stuff or not. It can be made tastefully, after all. Pillars doesn't do that. At least they did better in the outer worlds, so there's hope. My main gripe with pillars 2 is that companions can bu summed up in 1 sentence. That's it. Nothing more to them. And I do agree pillars 1 did affect the sales of pillars 2. Many people were disappointed that the game didn't live up to their personal utopian image of BG3. In a way the franchise was doomed the moment hype train began.

ME is the same for me, but probably for a different reason. I loved ME1. They nailed B-Movie shtick. And then comes the 2nd one and the game suddenly takes itself seriously and tries to feed me heroic space opera. Meh.

PK was nice indeed. We'll see about WotR. I don't have high hopes for it from what I've heard. Seems like we're getting NWN2 OC all over again.

What have you heard that gives you little hope for WotR?

They seem very tight-lipped about the game, apart from some stuff about classes++ and companions. Not a fan of all this "crusade" business, too terrible real world events, but it all comes from the PnP books I suppose. I hope it won't be too one-dimensional since we're bound to be fighting hordes of demons. Many different "paths" sound nice, but I've yet to find a game that does this well, meaning there is a solid reason to replay it. Usually 90-95% is the same, so there isn't so much reason to replay it for a truly different story.

I'll wait and see, read some reviews as usual, and hope they will release it for Linux. The way things are with the industry now, it's rarely a good idea to buy a game on release. Better to wait a few months until the game is more stable. From the few posts I've seen about the alpha, it does seem to be in a much better state than Kingmaker was on release, but it's always a good idea to know what product you buy before you actually buy it.

Hope it will turn out a great game, and I'm really pleased about somebody actually making RTWP games. I find them more fun than this torrent of turn-based games. More chaotic combat too, which I like. Cautiously optimistic.

straight-froward writing with villain explaining his plot and then failing miserably. Pretty much like ninja turtles cartoons. Their mythic classes are straight broken and will make the gap between top performers and others even bigger than it already is. Almost all companions are the same concept. Dex based something. Very inventive. Only Str companion is paladin afaik. And on top of that they are saying that wotr will be smaller than PK with replayability being key, which is never a good sign either. Oh! and most builds for your companions are already decided for you cause 'RP'. So if you think they learned anything from PK - you are mistaken. It's appartently too hard to make 4 low-level companions with open-ended builds for people to toy with.