Still? :| I thought with all the patches this would have been fixed.

Wouldn't this build benefit from 1 level of Vivi for sneaks & mutagen?

Hi, im fairly new to pathfinder and was trying to read and come up with some builds from scratch, but im a little unsure as to the viability. My goal for my next campaign is some RP builds and running a 4 man party.

For the MC, I was looking to try and play a druid. I wanted to run either a front line druid which can self buff and then wade in. Either sword and board, or two hander, I dont mind. Or going for a shifter druid.

The problem that im seeing is that as a front line fighter, I need to be able to off-tank and the druid buffs dont seem to be particularly conducive to that. So far in the game ive been unable to make a plate front liner have significant AC (except Valerie) so without something like mirrors image it seems like the plate druid will struggle.

Shifter druid seems even more shafted when it comes to AC from a glance (or am I missing something here?) So I looked to see if I could somehow combine shifter druid with mirrors image or the like.

Now feyspeaker in terms of spells has exactly what I need as I can get mirror image, and displacement etc, and being divine and I can cast in full plate. But, it has low BAB progression and im worried about my low number of attacks and ability to hit things (or do you think thats unfounded and im overlooking something).

I thought about some ways around this while trying to keep pet level at max. 1SF/3Viv/16Feyspeaker. Gets 3d6 sneak attack, mutagen and monk AC, can cast mirror image, but gets rubbish BAB. Could also maybe combine trip? But I havent tested if feral mutagen stacks with shifted form, I doubt it.

I feel as though this is very unoptimised for what im after, and im a little stuck. Do you happen to have any suggestions?

feyspeaker doesn't fight unshifted and bab has nothing to do with pets as their attacks are non-iterative. If you think around 60 AB is too low... well that I can't help you with.

Thanks for your response InEffect, I see what you mean, the wild shape forms give you x number of attacks simply based on the form you pick rather than your BAB bonus, so straight up damage boosts work well.

As for thinking 60 AB is too low. I definitely dont, its more of a case of I have no idea how you can get anywhere near 60AB with a shifter druid, what kind of buffs/stats/gear would you need to get anywhere near that?

Edit: Scratch that question, I just noticed that you've already posted a feyspeaker build a couple of months ago which I missed. Your write up of that build answers all of my questions.

Edit #2: ninja'd

Thanks again for your help

the build quite literally has all gear and progression outlined. It's a bit slow to get going, but then that's what a pet is for.

@InEffect, two more questions:

1) Is it possible to have Tristan as a minimally decent/efficient Mystic Theurge for normal? Ecc 3 / Sorc-that-uses-Wisdom 7 / Theurge 10?

2) I made a merc dex tank that works quite well at high levels (duelist/aldori/monk/thug). Would any of Valerie's Bard builds work well as a frontliner/offtank/damage dealer?

2.1) For any of the Valerie builds, which weapon would you suggest besides Bastard Swords? I'm using Bastard Swords on Amiri and wouldn't want one of them to use leftovers from the other. Flail and Heavy Mace hav crossed my mind

Thanks in advance!

1. Anything is 'good enough' for normal. No exceptions. I'd even say there is little reason not to meme on normal.

2. Sorc Val is fine.

3. You can toss her a vanquisher if you really want all 3 endgame oversized bastards for Amiri.

Hey InEffect, just wanted to run an idea past you.

This idea could be run in a bunch of builds I guess, but I was still thinking of that feyspeaker druid that i mentioned in the previous post.

You mentioned how feyspeaker will not fight unless in shifted form. And i know that feyspeaker is especially weak at low levels, so was thinking of there was a way of improving ramp and mitigating the low level problems.

Would a work around using bite and monk weapons be viable? If running motherless, feral mutagen and using monk weapons, we'd get 2 bites and 2 hits per round.

Combine with sneak attack damage of viv, could that make the druid feyspeaker useful at low levels alongside the pet?

You can't run motherless since you need the feats, and yes the build self-evidently includes monk. It's right there at level1 since you kinda want it to make unfair mansion less cancer anyways. There are no low-level problems per se. He's rather tanky and pet has better AB than most things out there, so it's all fine. You also can't do vivi since you have exactly 3 spare levels, so my feyspeaker17/M1/F2 is pretty much the only way to do it. It could be M2, but that'd front-load monk levels, which will ruin the tempo. There is no need to re-invent the wheel with feyspeaker. You are unlikely to get better results with it.

Cool, thanks ineffect.

InEffect, I'm not sure if it was something added in a late patch, but Anoriel was added to The House At The Edge of Time, and she allows the creation the mercenaries for free.

Would you recommend any specific build for The House At Edge of Time, or for any of the following ending areas for that matter?

Depends on what you are lacking. Generally, it's not too hard to just gather your party and continue. Maybe you'll have to replace an infantile chatterbox if you dragged her around, pretending she's a decent bard. In my experience, the biggest decision you are making at the house is how are you murdering the next room, not how to power through. The game just gives too much to the player and the house is nerfed to the ground. The only things you have to have is echolocation and FoM and neither is a problem.

In general, I'm leaving the murdering to Kalikke. I'm reasonably happy with my party and it follows somewhat your directives here (https://www.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffects_guide_v2/post139) with 1 DEX tank, 1 STR tank (your Val Bard build), 1 buff-bot (a Theurge), Jubi, Kalikke, and a greataxe paladin is my wild card, but I really do want to take advantage of the free mercs and try different stuff that I haven't tried throughout the game, so a few questions on your builds please:

1) Druid https://www.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffects_guide_v2/post664

You say " Overkill, but we needed the crane feats for the earlygame anyhow. " . If you created him at lvl 20, what would you pick instead of Monk & Crane feats?

2) Melee Sorc https://www.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffects_guide_v2/post41

Same question as above since "Crane feats you technically could live without altogether, but early/mid-game AC ramp is important too." . What to pick instead if you started at lvl 20?

3) Kineticist builds
https://www.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffects_guide_v2/post140 vs https://www.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffects_guide_v2/post171

Would you pick any vs the other for a lvl 20 merc?

4) Slayer
https://www.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffects_guide_v2/post334

I've read people raving about longbow Slayers. Could this be adapted from DW to ranged? If so, I take it Bard+DD are a waste?

Thanks in advance!

Think you can fit in pommeling for an extra knockdown.

Cleaving finish is alright.

I wouldn't. I hate kineticists with passion. They are everything that is wrong with the game in one class. If you do them right they are grossly op, if not - they suck. In a proper party, it's also faster to just kill everything than wait for deadly earth to do the thing, so that also teaches the wrong habits.

longbow is ok-ish for a low-maintenance build. I think slayer is wasted on ranged, though. I'd much rather have scoundrel/EA from unfair guide than ranged slayer. I'm fine with micro.

Would that be with a level of Druid instead of Monk?

And I guess here I would take a 6th level of Sorc?

I totally understand :) I do want to speed the end of game though so I can replay it so for now, an op build, low maintenance, would suit me fine :) Would any of the above fit the build better for normal difficulty? Or I can stick with your Kalikke build if the difference is minimal, I mean I already have Deadly Earth + Bowling + Cloud, which I understand to be the essentials?

I like that build too, and I will probably do another merc with it, but wanted to try the Slayer ranged option as well. Any guidance you can provide me would be great to replace those Bard+DD levels, unless you feel they bring much to a ranged character?