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Pathfinder: KingmakerFew questions about game mechanics(5 posts)solved(5 posts)solved
(5 posts)solved
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This is my favourite topic
Posted November 13, 2018
Hello,

you guys seem to know your stuff, both regarding the game and PnP. I would love if you could answer some questions, since those are things I can't seem to be able to test well enough myself.

1. Javelins in PnP can be dual wielded with Two Weapon Fighting, gaining all of the perks of that style, however only if you have Quick Draw feat as well. Since QD is changed in the game, does dual wielding Javelins work as intended in the game?

2. Javelins are also Monk weapons, so they should work with Flurry of Blows. I however wasn't able to discern whether the additional attack happens or not (animations and models for Javelins tend to bug out for me). Does anybody know?

3. Double weapons seem to be bugged in a lot of places in this game. As an example:

I recently made a TWF rogue, found a +1 agile two-bladed sword and decided to center a build around it. Two-bladed swords are considered two weapons - main hand standard weight weapon and offhand LIGHT weapon. We also apply Agile perk to BOTH ends in case of this particular item.

So I took feats as follows:
Weapon Finesse (free)
Two Weapon Fighting
Improved TWF
Greater TWF
Exotic Weapon Proficiency - Two-bladed Sword
Piranha Strike

This weapon cannot be finessed by rogues as part of their feat progression, but since we have Weapon Finesse and an Agile weapon, the game should put DEX modififer into damage formula for both ends/hands.

Well, now problems start to arise. Not every Two-bladed sword is the same. I "procured" 3 different weapons, and all 3 behaved differently.

a.) Agile TBS +1 took both weapon slots as expected, main hand had perks of Agile weapon, light weapon (!) and piranha strike. Offhand got only bonus to hit from being light.

b.) Twin Crystals (Agile Keen TBS + 5) gave the same bonuses to the mainhand as a), but also gave piranha and weapon finesse (in other words, DEX to both attack rolls and damage rolls) bonuses as if offhand was light (as it should).

c.) Agile TBS +5 - a variant of a), but it behaved TOTALLY different. Game considers it to be... a One-Handed weapon. My gnome held it with ONE hand. It's not even a unique item, just an upgraded a), at least based on what I can gather from the information on Character Sheet. You can equip two, and it looks gloriously glitchy. As for stats - mainhand acts according to agile light piranha'd TWF, offhand is... strange. Bonuses are stated as "Other", so I can only say it acts as if offhand weapon is not light, but gives more bonuses compared to a) in both attack and damage...

So now, dear friends, I ask for your insight.

Help is very much appreciated, thank you!

P.S. Siangham and nunchaku seem to have no models... or is it just me?
P.P.S. Chakram is mentioned in few feats, but doesn't seem to be in-game, did anyone find any?
P.P.P.S Is there any way to check the number of attacks a character has without manual computation? The game doesn't seem to take some modifiers into consideration, like offhand attacks and such... Did I overlook something?
Post edited November 13, 2018 by Hectorim
This question / problem has been solved by InEffectimage
Posted November 13, 2018
avatar
Hectorim: Hello,

you guys seem to know your stuff, both regarding the game and PnP. I would love if you could answer some questions, since those are things I can't seem to be able to test well enough myself.

1. Javelins in PnP can be dual wielded with Two Weapon Fighting, gaining all of the perks of that style, however only if you have Quick Draw feat as well. Since QD is changed in the game, does dual wielding Javelins work as intended in the game?

2. Javelins are also Monk weapons, so they should work with Flurry of Blows. I however wasn't able to discern whether the additional attack happens or not (animations and models for Javelins tend to bug out for me). Does anybody know?

3. Double weapons seem to be bugged in a lot of places in this game. As an example:

I recently made a TWF rogue, found a +1 agile two-bladed sword and decided to center a build around it. Two-bladed swords are considered two weapons - main hand standard weight weapon and offhand LIGHT weapon. We also apply Agile perk to BOTH ends in case of this particular item.

So I took feats as follows:
Weapon Finesse (free)
Two Weapon Fighting
Improved TWF
Greater TWF
Exotic Weapon Proficiency - Two-bladed Sword
Piranha Strike

This weapon cannot be finessed by rogues as part of their feat progression, but since we have Weapon Finesse and an Agile weapon, the game should put DEX modififer into damage formula for both ends/hands.

Well, now problems start to arise. Not every Two-bladed sword is the same. I "procured" 3 different weapons, and all 3 behaved differently.

a.) Agile TBS +1 took both weapon slots as expected, main hand had perks of Agile weapon, light weapon (!) and piranha strike. Offhand got only bonus to hit from being light.

b.) Twin Crystals (Agile Keen TBS + 5) gave the same bonuses to the mainhand as a), but also gave piranha and weapon finesse (in other words, DEX to both attack rolls and damage rolls) bonuses as if offhand was light (as it should).

c.) Agile TBS +5 - a variant of a), but it behaved TOTALLY different. Game considers it to be... a One-Handed weapon. My gnome held it with ONE hand. It's not even a unique item, just an upgraded a), at least based on what I can gather from the information on Character Sheet. You can equip two, and it looks gloriously glitchy. As for stats - mainhand acts according to agile light piranha'd TWF, offhand is... strange. Bonuses are stated as "Other", so I can only say it acts as if offhand weapon is not light, but gives more bonuses compared to a) in both attack and damage...

So now, dear friends, I ask for your insight.

Help is very much appreciated, thank you!

P.S. Siangham and nunchaku seem to have no models... or is it just me?
P.P.S. Chakram is mentioned in few feats, but doesn't seem to be in-game, did anyone find any?
P.P.P.S Is there any way to check the number of attacks a character has without manual computation? The game doesn't seem to take some modifiers into consideration, like offhand attacks and such... Did I overlook something?
1. no
2. pretty sure also no, but might be wrong on that one. also there are no good javs in the game at all, so there's that as well.
3. Yes, double weapons are FUBAR. avoid em like a plague for now if you ask me. how they work depends on a case-by case basis with no consistency whatsoever. exotics in general are very bugged. like 1h full sized exotic weapons do not get 1,5 str mod when you 2-hand those, unlike martial weapons, for example.

ps - there are also no good weapons in this category. there area few unenchanted ones and that's it. don't have one at hand to check models.
pps - a lot of descriptions are taken out o pnp with no regard to what was actually implemented
ppps - no, you have to know how many extra attacks you get. same with added damage.
Post edited November 13, 2018 by InEffect
Posted November 13, 2018
Thank you InEffect. Not all double weapons are totally borked though - Orc Double Axes seem to be ok and work fine.

I have another question.

I can't seem to grasp how Flurry of Blows works on Monk in Kingmaker because of how its description is worded and how Unarmed "weapon" is shown on character screen.

Pathfinder rules used in the game are for the Unchained version of the monk with full BAB progression and FoB with no penalties, that I understand.

However, the description eludes me:

At 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. When making a flurry of blows, the monk can make one additional attack at his highest base attack bonus. This additional attack stacks with the bonus attacks from haste and other similar effects. When using this ability, the monk can make these attacks with any combination of his unarmed strikes and weapons that have the monk special weapon quality. He takes no penalty for using multiple weapons when making a flurry of blows, but he does not gain any additional attacks beyond what’s already granted by the flurry for doing so. (He can still gain additional attacks from a high base attack bonus, from this ability, and from haste and similar effects).
So when you are unarmed (before lv 6), you attack once every turn + the second time from FoB.

If I use a single Kama/Sai/Quarterstaff - same thing, 2 attacks total at full AB.

When using this ability, the monk can make these attacks with any combination of his unarmed strikes and weapons that have the monk special weapon quality.
How does this relate to the game? Does it at all? Does the "combination" signify that I can somehow use both a Monk weapon and unarmed strike in a single round with Flurry of Blows?

Or does it simply suggest that Monk Style Strikes can be mixed in a single round with Monk Weapon strikes retaining FoB in that round, so i.e. (before level 6) Leg Sweep as 1st strike --> Kama hit as 2nd strike?

He takes no penalty for using multiple weapons when making a flurry of blows, but he does not gain any additional attacks beyond what’s already granted by the flurry for doing so.
How does the game apply that logic above? Does that simply mean Two Weapon Fighting (wielding two monk weapons) does not stack with Flurry of Blows? From my testing it seems that before level 6 Monk wielding two Kama will in fact attack 3 times - MH hit, OH hit, FoB hit.

So I would assume one needs to interpret the above quote as "Dual wielding does not double the amount of additional attacks granted by Flurry of Blows". Is that right?
Post edited November 13, 2018 by Hectorim
Posted November 13, 2018
avatar
Hectorim: Thank you InEffect. Not all double weapons are totally borked though - Orc Double Axes seem to be ok and work fine.

I have another question.

I can't seem to grasp how Flurry of Blows works on Monk in Kingmaker because of how its description is worded and how Unarmed "weapon" is shown on character screen.

Pathfinder rules used in the game are for the Unchained version of the monk with full BAB progression and FoB with no penalties, that I understand.

However, the description eludes me:

At 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. When making a flurry of blows, the monk can make one additional attack at his highest base attack bonus. This additional attack stacks with the bonus attacks from haste and other similar effects. When using this ability, the monk can make these attacks with any combination of his unarmed strikes and weapons that have the monk special weapon quality. He takes no penalty for using multiple weapons when making a flurry of blows, but he does not gain any additional attacks beyond what’s already granted by the flurry for doing so. (He can still gain additional attacks from a high base attack bonus, from this ability, and from haste and similar effects).
avatar
Hectorim: So when you are unarmed (before lv 6), you attack once every turn + the second time from FoB.

If I use a single Kama/Sai/Quarterstaff - same thing, 2 attacks total at full AB.

When using this ability, the monk can make these attacks with any combination of his unarmed strikes and weapons that have the monk special weapon quality.
avatar
Hectorim: How does this relate to the game? Does it at all? Does the "combination" signify that I can somehow use both a Monk weapon and unarmed strike in a single round with Flurry of Blows?

Or does it simply suggest that Monk Style Strikes can be mixed in a single round with Monk Weapon strikes retaining FoB in that round, so i.e. (before level 6) Leg Sweep as 1st strike --> Kama hit as 2nd strike?

He takes no penalty for using multiple weapons when making a flurry of blows, but he does not gain any additional attacks beyond what’s already granted by the flurry for doing so.
avatar
Hectorim: How does the game apply that logic above? Does that simply mean Two Weapon Fighting (wielding two monk weapons) does not stack with Flurry of Blows? From my testing it seems that before level 6 Monk wielding two Kama will in fact attack 3 times - MH hit, OH hit, FoB hit.

So I would assume one needs to interpret the above quote as "Dual wielding does not double the amount of additional attacks granted by Flurry of Blows". Is that right?
so first I will explain how exactly flurry works. it is how it should be by pnp. you get all attacks with primary weapon+flurry and haste+extra attack Ki power added it that if any. TWF and flurry are mutually exclusive. technically said weapon should be a monk weapon but until 1.1 gets to gog it works with any weapon.

no penalty means exactly what you can deduce from context, as you can not use both extra attacks from twf and flurry at the same time there is no reason to penalize you. even if you do have a weapon in off-hand, as you do not use it.

in pnp you can choose to use fists instead of any of those attacks. a lot of text was taken RAW from the pnp and not always depicts how it works in the game, as I mentioned above.

upd.
full attack action is attack action that can be made if you moved no more than 5ft that round. otherwise you can make 1 attack. there are class feats like pounce that allow to circumvent that limitation.
Post edited November 13, 2018 by InEffect
Posted November 14, 2018
avatar
Hectorim: Thank you InEffect. Not all double weapons are totally borked though - Orc Double Axes seem to be ok and work fine.

I have another question.

I can't seem to grasp how Flurry of Blows works on Monk in Kingmaker because of how its description is worded and how Unarmed "weapon" is shown on character screen.

Pathfinder rules used in the game are for the Unchained version of the monk with full BAB progression and FoB with no penalties, that I understand.

However, the description eludes me:

So when you are unarmed (before lv 6), you attack once every turn + the second time from FoB.

If I use a single Kama/Sai/Quarterstaff - same thing, 2 attacks total at full AB.

How does this relate to the game? Does it at all? Does the "combination" signify that I can somehow use both a Monk weapon and unarmed strike in a single round with Flurry of Blows?

Or does it simply suggest that Monk Style Strikes can be mixed in a single round with Monk Weapon strikes retaining FoB in that round, so i.e. (before level 6) Leg Sweep as 1st strike --> Kama hit as 2nd strike?

How does the game apply that logic above? Does that simply mean Two Weapon Fighting (wielding two monk weapons) does not stack with Flurry of Blows? From my testing it seems that before level 6 Monk wielding two Kama will in fact attack 3 times - MH hit, OH hit, FoB hit.

So I would assume one needs to interpret the above quote as "Dual wielding does not double the amount of additional attacks granted by Flurry of Blows". Is that right?
avatar
InEffect: so first I will explain how exactly flurry works. it is how it should be by pnp. you get all attacks with primary weapon+flurry and haste+extra attack Ki power added it that if any. TWF and flurry are mutually exclusive. technically said weapon should be a monk weapon but until 1.1 gets to gog it works with any weapon.

no penalty means exactly what you can deduce from context, as you can not use both extra attacks from twf and flurry at the same time there is no reason to penalize you. even if you do have a weapon in off-hand, as you do not use it.

in pnp you can choose to use fists instead of any of those attacks. a lot of text was taken RAW from the pnp and not always depicts how it works in the game, as I mentioned above.

upd.
full attack action is attack action that can be made if you moved no more than 5ft that round. otherwise you can make 1 attack. there are class feats like pounce that allow to circumvent that limitation.
Thank you, it's clear to me now :D
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This is my favourite topic
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Pathfinder: KingmakerFew questions about game mechanics(5 posts)solved(5 posts)solved
(5 posts)solved