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Might and Magic seriesMM 3: AC overflow possible?(13 posts)solved(13 posts)solved
(13 posts)solved
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Posted May 30, 2017
So I am thinking to replay MM III in some time in future and I want to have "perfect" party with good gear. But before I will make my gearing plan I want to know if it is possible for AC to overflow? Is there any other stat which might overflow because of gear choices?

Are there any similar issues in World of Xeen? I know that it is harder to get higher AC in Xeen because accessories don't provide AC anymore, but still.

P.S.: Btw, recently I discovered insane overflow in MM6. When you are about to reach Lv. 2073 (2^31-1 Experience), you will get "free" levels upto 32767 (though you will still need to pay training costs, but those were reduced with one of the patches, so it is eventually achievable). You can train to levels higher than 32767, but they will overflow, your maximum SP will become 0, and maximum HP will become 1, training costs will drastically increase, and trainer will say that your level is in billions now (screenshot provided). Eventually it can overflow back to 1...
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This question / problem has been solved by dtgreeneimage
Posted May 30, 2017
I am not aware of any AC overflow in these games. However, there are some overflows that can happen:

* In either game, if your level is at least 256, long duration spells that scale with level (like Power Shield) will have their effectiveness reduced modulo 256. (Note that getting a level this high is impossible without temporary bonuses, and in WoX, requires spending a fortune to train to high levels and then using permanent level bonuses on that character.)

* I believe Gold can overflow if you get enough interest from the bank (but not before 2 billion, which isn't something you would achieve in typical gameplay).

* In MM3, current HP can overflow. HP fountains give your entire party HP even if only one character needs it, and the Half for Me spell can overflow if used on characters with HP above normal maximum. (Note that Half for Me overflow will end up killing the caster when overflow occurs because the backlash is treated like damage even when it gives you HP.)

* In Darkside of Xeen, it might be possible to overflow current SP by using a certain once-per-day event to keep raising SP by 1800 each time.

* Swords of Xeen has some to watch out for. A certain HP fountain that doesn't check your maximum can cause overflow, and if a natural 19 year old drinks from the fountain of youth, she will age 255 years (this is technically an underflow, but you get the idea). Note that Swords of Xeen should be treated like any poorly-made game; save early and often, and don't expect the game to be fairly balanced! (Also, play SoX on Adventurer; it's OK to play WoX on Warrior because the game is properly balanced, but don't try that for SoX.)
Posted May 31, 2017
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dtgreene: I am not aware of any AC overflow in these games. However, there are some overflows that can happen:
So what happens if you equip all +AC gear?
Is there overflow for resistances? So you equip all +Resists gear and buff yourself, ending in negative?
What happens if you have 255 in some stat and equip an item with +X to that stat?
Posted May 31, 2017
Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but you only have 18 slots, with a maximum of 63 AC modifier per item, right?

So even if you equip all slots with +63AC items, that will still be +1134AC total.

AC is stored using 2 bytes. Assuming it uses two complement, that will be a range of -32768 to 32767. Which means regardless of the behaviour at overflow, you'll never be able to equip your character to bring him even close to the limit. So you shouldn't have anything to worry about.
Posted May 31, 2017
Attributes above 255 are still "perfect" and grant the same bonus.
I don't think AC will overflow, it's pointless focusing solely on AC since much lower values should already make you almost impossible to hit and the hardest bosses use energy attacks which ignore AC.

Planning your gear in advance is pointless since all drops are random.
Posted May 31, 2017
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kmonster: Attributes above 255 are still "perfect" and grant the same bonus.
I don't think AC will overflow, it's pointless focusing solely on AC since much lower values should already make you almost impossible to hit and the hardest bosses use energy attacks which ignore AC.

Planning your gear in advance is pointless since all drops are random.
I think the OP is not concerned with what will be effective in winning the game, but is instead interested in the "perfect" party build as a separate challenge of its own.
Posted May 31, 2017
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Sarisio: P.S.: Btw, recently I discovered insane overflow in MM6. When you are about to reach Lv. 2073 (2^31-1 Experience),
I'd say Lv. 2073 is more insane than any overflow.
Post edited May 31, 2017 by PetrusOctavianus
Posted May 31, 2017
In the Super NES version of MM3 (which is not recommended due to being slow and having a bug that makes it more difficult than it should be to raise a certain stat) it is actually possible to underflow your AC; just equip accessories that lower your AC (like wooden ones, for example), and your AC will eventually underflow and become large.

By the way, regarding stat caps in MM3-5 (this includes level and probably AC):
* The base value of a stat is always in the 0-255 range. Permanent increases change the base value, so there's no way to exceed permanent level 255, for example.
* Temporary modifiers (from fountains or disease, for example) ignore the cap. Being hit with certain status ailments, for example, can raise some stats above the cap. (Note that there's no benefit to having stats greater than 255.) You can also pass level 255 with temporary bonuses, but as I mentioned before, long duration spells end up being less effective due to overflow (so cast the spells *before* you raise your level past 255).
* Aging modifiers also ignore this cap. An old character can have Int and Per greater than 255. (It's worth noting that, in Xeen, it's rather difficult to get Personality up high enough to get the maximum bonus, but fortunately, for the two classes that benefit most from the stat, it's easy to age the character just by casting a certain spell.) Note that sufficiently old characters can't get maximum stat bonuses for stats that are negatively affected by aging (but the character won't die from old age as long as all stats are positive).
* I do not know whether equipment lets you exceed the cap.
Posted May 31, 2017
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dtgreene: and your AC will eventually underflow and become large.
You know how large exactly?
Posted May 31, 2017
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dtgreene: and your AC will eventually underflow and become large.
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ZFR: You know how large exactly?
I believe to around 250 or so (in other words, I believe it's an unsigned 8 bit integer, or a rust u8.)

Edit: Note that this is different from the PC version, where AC does not underflow.
Post edited May 31, 2017 by dtgreene
Posted May 31, 2017
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Waltorious: I think the OP is not concerned with what will be effective in winning the game, but is instead interested in the "perfect" party build as a separate challenge of its own.
Exactly so :) I have played all MM games so many times already and now just want to make my next playthrough a bit more gear-oriented.
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kmonster: Planning your gear in advance is pointless since all drops are random.
Good old "Reload" in front of chest was always a good tool to fight this kind of randomness :)

I needed to test some things and need Lv.255 chars for that, so will check how resists and AC act at high values as well. If it is 2 bytes, then just need to check if resists can go into negatives.
Posted May 31, 2017
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Sarisio: I needed to test some things and need Lv.255 chars for that, so will check how resists and AC act at high values as well. If it is 2 bytes, then just need to check if resists can go into negatives.
In MM3, it's actually rather easy to get a character's level up to 255 temporarily; the fountain where you can pay to give a character 50 temporary levels can be used 5 times by the same character on the same day. (Exception: If you use the 20 level fountain, you can only have that character use the 50 level fountain 4 times that day.) Do that with a level 5 character, and you now have (for now) a level 255 character.

Again, note that if you want to cast Bless to increase your AC, don't go past level 255 or you won't get the full bonus. (There's also the small matter of getting the required amount of spell points; remember that the fountain doesn't restore spell points (you will need a different fountain for that), and that resting will remove the temporary levels.)

Edit: Added the word "level" to clarify what I mean.
Post edited May 31, 2017 by dtgreene
Posted May 31, 2017
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dtgreene: In MM3, it's actually rather easy to get a character's level up to 255 temporarily; the fountain where you can pay to give a character 50 temporary levels can be used 5 times by the same character on the same day. (Exception: If you use the 20 level fountain, you can only have that character use the 50 level fountain 4 times that day.) Do that with a level 5 character, and you now have (for now) a level 255 character.
I simply used Hex Editor and raised all the way up to 255 for testing purpose.
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dtgreene: Again, note that if you want to cast Bless to increase your AC, don't go past level 255 or you won't get the full bonus. (There's also the small matter of getting the required amount of spell points; remember that the fountain doesn't restore spell points (you will need a different fountain for that), and that resting will remove the temporary levels.)

Edit: Added the word "level" to clarify what I mean.
Well, at least at Lv.255 it work ok (screenshot attached). I don't want to bother with hex editing gear to test my point, so I just cross fingers and pray that I won't have overflows in my playthrough :) Pluses to everyone in this thread.
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Might and Magic seriesMM 3: AC overflow possible?(13 posts)solved(13 posts)solved
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