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I've been playing M&M 8 for a few hours for a few hours now and I've just learnt how the different skill ranks like "Normal," "Expert," "Master," and so on are obtained. I thought you just had to put points into skills and you would learn the ranks automatically, like how it works in most other games. Or that you would be blocked from putting more than a certain amount of points into a skill if a class couldn't go over a certain rank, like only being able to put 4 points into a "normal" ranked skill before you had to go to a trainer.
But it turns out that's not the case.

It seems like I can put an infinite amount of points into a skill if I really wanted to regardless if said character could never go above the "normal" rank. What happens if I put 10 points into a skill that I can't train to improved, does the points not have any effect past a certain point? Or is it just that I don't get the different rank boosts that can be read if you right click the skills?

Anyone know how this works?
This question / problem has been solved by Bookwyrm627image
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Rohomild: Or is it just that I don't get the different rank boosts that can be read if you right click the skills?

Anyone know how this works?
tl;dr -> If you don't know that level of mastery, you just don't get the boosts that come from having that level of mastery. Each character's mastery only applies to that character.


Long version, since I've already typed it:
The levels of mastery (Expert, Master, Grand Master) provide additional bonuses when a character acquires that level of mastery, and these bonuses either stack (if not the same) or overwrite the weaker perk (if the bonus is a stronger version of the previous bonus). Each class has its own list of which skills it can learn and what levels of mastery can be reached in each skill. Master and Grand Master may have extra requirements besides just raw skill ranks, like requiring completing a quest or having a minimum value in a stat.

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Let's look at the Bow skill as an example.
Dragon: Can't learn the skill, so a dragon can't even equip a bow (we're ignoring the fact that a dragon's basic attack is better than any bow for purposes of this discussion).

Every class except Knight, Minotaur, and Dark Elf: Can learn the Bow skill, but they can't reach Expert in it. Only the Normal tier ability applies for these classes, so they get +1 bonus to hit for each skill rank. If you get them to Bow 10, then they get +10 to hit, and that is all.

Knight, Minotaur: Can reach Expert in the Bow skill. Until they have Expert training, they get +1 to hit per skill rank, so Bow 10 means they get +10 to hit. However, when they purchase Expert training, they also receive the Expert perk from that point forward. Bow 10 expert means they get +10 to hit AND -10 bonus to recovery after shooting an arrow.

Dark Elf: Can reach Master. When they have purchased Master training, their Bow 10 gives them +10 to hit, -10 bonus to recovery speed, and they fire 2 arrows with every bow attack. If they reach Bow 30, they get +30 to hit, -30 bonus to recovery, and fire two arrows with every attack.

Dark Elf Patriarch: Can reach GM. After they purchase GM training, their Bow 10 gives them +10 to hit, -10 bonus to recovery, they fire 2 arrows each time they use the bow, and they get +10 bonus to damage per arrow.
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Let's look at spell casting. The particular brand of magic doesn't matter for our broad use case, but I'll list Air spells as my example spells.

Don't know the skill: You can't learn or use spells of this magic school.

Normal mastery: You can learn only the Normal level spells of this school. (Wizard Eye, Feather Fall, Sparks, Air Resistance)
All spells of this magic are cast at their Normal level. (Feather Fall lasts 5 minutes per skill point)

Expert: You can also learn the Expert tier of spells. (can add Normal tier spells, and also add Jump, Shield, Lightning Bolt)
All spells of this magic are cast at their Expert level (Feather Fall lasts 10 minutes per skill point)

Master: You can also learn the Master tier of spells. (Invisibility, Implosion, Fly)
All spells of this magic are cast at their Master level (Feather Fall lasts 1 hour per skill point)

Grand Master: You can also learn the Grand Master tier of spells. (All Air magic spells can be learned, including Starburst)
All spells of this magic are cast at their Grand Master level (Feather Fall lasts 1 hour per skill point and it has a faster recovery time after casting)

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Your skill points are effectively limited, so you'll only want to invest in the skills a character will actually use and use well. I would never spend points on Bow for a Cleric because they'll never reach Expert with it. I'd push a Knight to Bow 4 so he can learn Expert, and I'd stop there. Only one character in my party will increase their skill in Disarm Trap because only character can open a given chest for the first time (setting off the trap or disarming it). If I have a Vampire and a Cleric, I'll take the Vamp to Master in the Self magics (Body, Mind, Spirit), while the Cleric goes to Grand Master Self magics; the Vamp can cast (weaker) healing spells if needed and they can cast the status removal spells if the Cleric is incapacitated. All my spell casters get Meditation boosted to the max mastery they can reach.

Finally, consider what each class is going to do long term, and figure out what skill(s) will be the "dump" for all skill points earned after you've gotten everything else where you want it. For example, once my Troll has GM Mace, GM Leather, GM Body Building, GM Regeneration, M Armsmaster, and maybe M Repair Item (if a Knight isn't in my party and I don't feel like abusing the Adventurer's Guild), then all further skill points my Troll earns will go straight into Mace to increase the Paralyze chance.

My Necromancer/Lich is going to use Dark magic as his skill point dump. Cleric uses Light magic. Dark Elf is probably dumping into Dark Elf magic to boost Darkfire Bolt. Vampire dumps into Dagger, Minotaur into Axe, etc.
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Bookwyrm627:
Thanks! That's what I wanted to know. I've messed up a few stats on my characters because this is my first time playing, but you live and you learn ya know
also not completely sure, but from what I've noticed master + 10 skill in certain skills (repair item, disarm trap) seem to be able to do everything so grand master is just a meme
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Bookwyrm627:
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Rohomild: Thanks! That's what I wanted to know. I've messed up a few stats on my characters because this is my first time playing, but you live and you learn ya know
Yep, that happens.

The party system in MM8 makes it SUPER forgiving. There are generally 4-5 recruitables for each class, so if you badly mess up a given character, just toss them out and pick a replacement. You won't have this option in 6 or 7, though. Also, be aware that 6 has some differences in the skill system (no grand mastery, and no class-based mastery restrictions).
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omgzed: also not completely sure, but from what I've noticed master + 10 skill in certain skills (repair item, disarm trap) seem to be able to do everything so grand master is just a meme
Disarm Trap and Repair Item work on a value system. Each trap/item has a minimum skill value required to achieve success, and the game just compares that value against the active character's skill level. The masteries for these skills double, triple, or quintuple the value of the skill points (so a Master 7 succeeds on tasks requiring a 21 or less).

Obviously, no trap or item requires more than 50 (so GM always succeeds), and only end game traps and artifacts are likely to require 30+ values. Such high value requirements might exist in areas like Escaton's Palace, but I don't know the exact numbers or ranges that are in the game. If you've invested to reach Master 10 in Disarm or Repair, then I'd just purchase the GM training anyway (if possible); it isn't like lack of gold is a problem by that point.
Post edited October 14, 2022 by Bookwyrm627