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Jagged Alliance seriesJA2 1.13 mod/patch sucks to me(19 posts)(19 posts)
(19 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted January 08, 2010
I want to start off saying I love extra guns and the new inventory system. I like the options and externalized files for my own modding in my spare time. But the 1.13 patch is adding an annoying new sort of gambling system where 1% hit chances happen often and here is my story of horrible bad luck............
There are many moments I hate and think (key word is think, though I know it isn't) the AI is cheating. After dropping off in Omerta and going halfway through town towards the south there's a situation where a guy with a crap pistol with only 9 range walks up and taps me after running most of his turn from 15+ tiles and lands a headshot that does 45 damage (glaser round I found out later). My IMP guy, with a MP5 with 18 tile range, retaliates twice with a 55% chance to hit and misses both. Igor next to my IMP merc fires his pistol with max aim once and has a 1% chance to hit, and Igor's 9mm has 11 range. Next turn the bad guy fires 3 shots and hits again on my IMP. Next turn 2 shots from MP5 and 2 shots from Igor all miss.
Another situation. Drassen Airport at the beginning. I come in from North and nothing is in sector behind me. Then we attack it and after hiding behind a shed 3 turns later 2 guys come in from behind and shoot my IMP in the head and poor Barry too, and my guys didn't get interrupts mind you with almost all the AP still in stock. We retaliate within 4 tiles of each other and Igor misses both shots with his 9mm, my IMP is incapacitated, and Barry couldn't hit the side of a barn with his little russian pistol apparently as he missed the 1 shot he was able to get off with max aim. I am of the opinion that the AI is cheating in this mod or apparently hates me.
There is more but basically the AI hits my guys with 1% shots about half the time they fire them and my guys can't hit a damn thing until they run up to the enemy and execute them commissar style. This sucks because when my guys run up to the enemy, who is always waiting, they get mowed down before they get within effective gun range. This is really a demeaning thing when you manage to like one part of a game and can't leave it yet when you do finally leave you are left feeling sad that one part you don't like ruined the flavor of the whole thing.
The main problem I see is when there are 8 bad guys with pistols lined up every round they land at least 1 good hit on one of my guys with 1% rolls. 1% means 1 in 100 but repeatedly they land them about 1 in 15-20 hits. This is fairly easily reproducible and I was wondering if anyone else notices this problem with the shot accuracy system.
EDIT: I noticed the name of this thread is misleading, and is an attention grabber. I have to remember never to post while drinking, had to fix a few misspelling errors on the way too. I will admit I like 90% of the mod, there are a few nuances like the above 1% shot chance 'bug' that kinda leave it sour but I have to remind myself there are various bugs in vanilla 1.12 JA2 anyway.
Post edited January 09, 2010 by tb87670
Posted January 08, 2010
EDIT: Double post, lesson don't drink and post.
Post edited January 09, 2010 by tb87670
Posted January 09, 2010
i love JA2, for me its one of those games that i have come back too again and again since i first got my hands on it when it was released back in 1882 or whenever. My first impressions of the game however was that it was too hard (on novice) and cheated, this is without the mod. Have you tried the game without it? i ask because the enemy pulling of long range shots with a rusted revolver held togther with duct tape has always been JA2's way. I learnt that in those first few battles when my team was armed with basically sod all and getting picked off at distance i was better using stealth and trying to get as close to the enemy before engaging. Try and get your team to a building and fight around there.
As for interupts they are based on your mercs exp, hire Gus Tarballs for a day and you will see that no-one gets to move across his LOS without him having a say. The 1.13 mod does let you create more than one custom merc, so make a few, hire a couple of decent mercs and after you take the airport you can start arming your team with better equipment.
Once everyone is using rifles and assault rifles the unfair advantage does seem to go away.
Hope this helps, good luck.
Posted January 09, 2010
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robobrien: i love JA2, for me its one of those games that i have come back too again and again since i first got my hands on it when it was released back in 1882 or whenever. My first impressions of the game however was that it was too hard (on novice) and cheated, this is without the mod. Have you tried the game without it? i ask because the enemy pulling of long range shots with a rusted revolver held togther with duct tape has always been JA2's way. I learnt that in those first few battles when my team was armed with basically sod all and getting picked off at distance i was better using stealth and trying to get as close to the enemy before engaging. Try and get your team to a building and fight around there.
As for interupts they are based on your mercs exp, hire Gus Tarballs for a day and you will see that no-one gets to move across his LOS without him having a say. The 1.13 mod does let you create more than one custom merc, so make a few, hire a couple of decent mercs and after you take the airport you can start arming your team with better equipment.
Once everyone is using rifles and assault rifles the unfair advantage does seem to go away.
Hope this helps, good luck.

Yeah I took a step back and noticed that straight up gunfights don't work in the original within a day of owning a game. The mod makes this doubly more so but also makes guns more easily available in the gun store once you get an airport. I was drunk other night and made a rant post so ignore most of it if you want.
Also about the buildings, in 1.13 mod AI is smarter, instead of just running into your doors like you want them too they will wait on you for a long long time and when you manage to take a peek you get shot by a firing squad. AFter they set up around a building I try firing off a stray shot to get their attention then they run in but being choked up can be a bad thing in modded game. Sorta like real life, if you're surrounded by 8 guys and you're in a hole, they can just wait. I also found out reinforcements can come in from various sectors if there are enemies in them, as I was moving in above situation I loaded again and noticed that as I was going into the airport from the north a squad of enemies took the sector I just left and my guys saw them. Apparently they moved south again in a few minutes.
Posted January 14, 2010
Personally I suspect the 'cheaing' is just confirmation bias more likely than not. Yes, sometimes the computer can pull amazing shots, but so can you. The thing is that the computer has way more guys than you do and doesn't care if they get wounded or killed, whereas you have to keep your team healthy for them to be of any use, so you can't afford to get hit much. I've also had situations when a black shirt unloaded on one of my guys from point blank range from an automatic weapon and didn't hit him once despite standing right next to him. It's just luck.
Anyway, improved AI or not, fighting in the open is suicide. Never EVER fight in the open unless it's night and you have NVGs and silencers. The interrupt is your friend. Personally I've found two effective ways of fighting:
Method #1: Get your guys silenced sniper rifles (ie VSS) and NVGs. Station them in a secure position, have them kneel and raise their weapons towards enemy entry points. Fire a shot from an unsilenced sidearm and snipe any enemies that approach to investigate.
Method #2: Get your guys weapons that requires as few APs to fire as possible (ie MP7), station them next to a corner or door, and fire an unsilenced shot. Shoot any enemies who come from around the corner.
Posted January 18, 2010
It's been a while since I made this post. Now I can't go back to vanilla JA2.
First of all the only nag I have anymore with the 1.13 mod is the fact that gun prices are off. a 6.8SPC Bushmaster rifle goes for $2800 whereas an old AK-47 (1947 model!) goes for $3000. In my opinion, AK's and it's weapons family should be at least 10% cheaper than their NATO counterparts, just for the sake of the fact every 3rd world country can get them at $200 apiece in the real life. The fact that AK's have the same range as NATO weapons also bugs me, so exact balancing needs to be done in this department.
Prices and stats aside I'm content with the mod. I am able to turn off the Drassen Counterattack (which ruins the game) and have figured out the XML bits to mod my own guns in and change current ones. Sometime when I am feeling randy I'll re-balance all the guns and add some extras.
Posted January 27, 2010
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tb87670: I want to start off saying I love extra guns and the new inventory system. I like the options and externalized files for my own modding in my spare time. But the 1.13 patch is adding an annoying new sort of gambling system where 1% hit chances happen often and here is my story of horrible bad luck............

The 1% minimum hit chance does not come from the 1.13 patch: in vanilla 1.12 chance to hit range is also 1% to 99%. Because of the way "random" numbers are generated on computers and especially in JA2, it more or less means that one shot every 100 shot will hit even if the target is behind full cover. It also means that if you miss a lot of shots, the enemy will make a lot of lucky shot.
In fact, 1.13 version including HAM have a patch for that: by default minimum chance to hit is 1/10000 or something like that... I think the feeling you have that it occurs more in 1.13 may come from the fact that enemies shoot more, especially if you have HAM suppressing fire AI option activated.
Maybe you should try to have a loot on this setting in the config files. If you cannot see them, try upgrading to a newer patch.
Latest 1 click installers can be found there, at the Bear's Pit Forums. (There are many version around the net, that one is the one)
Posted May 23, 2013
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tb87670: I want to start off saying I love extra guns and the new inventory system. I like the options and externalized files for my own modding in my spare time. But the 1.13 patch is adding an annoying new sort of gambling system where 1% hit chances happen often and here is my story of horrible bad luck............

There are many moments I hate and think (key word is think, though I know it isn't) the AI is cheating. After dropping off in Omerta and going halfway through town towards the south there's a situation where a guy with a crap pistol with only 9 range walks up and taps me after running most of his turn from 15+ tiles and lands a headshot that does 45 damage (glaser round I found out later). My IMP guy, with a MP5 with 18 tile range, retaliates twice with a 55% chance to hit and misses both. Igor next to my IMP merc fires his pistol with max aim once and has a 1% chance to hit, and Igor's 9mm has 11 range. Next turn the bad guy fires 3 shots and hits again on my IMP. Next turn 2 shots from MP5 and 2 shots from Igor all miss.

Another situation. Drassen Airport at the beginning. I come in from North and nothing is in sector behind me. Then we attack it and after hiding behind a shed 3 turns later 2 guys come in from behind and shoot my IMP in the head and poor Barry too, and my guys didn't get interrupts mind you with almost all the AP still in stock. We retaliate within 4 tiles of each other and Igor misses both shots with his 9mm, my IMP is incapacitated, and Barry couldn't hit the side of a barn with his little russian pistol apparently as he missed the 1 shot he was able to get off with max aim. I am of the opinion that the AI is cheating in this mod or apparently hates me.

There is more but basically the AI hits my guys with 1% shots about half the time they fire them and my guys can't hit a damn thing until they run up to the enemy and execute them commissar style. This sucks because when my guys run up to the enemy, who is always waiting, they get mowed down before they get within effective gun range. This is really a demeaning thing when you manage to like one part of a game and can't leave it yet when you do finally leave you are left feeling sad that one part you don't like ruined the flavor of the whole thing.

The main problem I see is when there are 8 bad guys with pistols lined up every round they land at least 1 good hit on one of my guys with 1% rolls. 1% means 1 in 100 but repeatedly they land them about 1 in 15-20 hits. This is fairly easily reproducible and I was wondering if anyone else notices this problem with the shot accuracy system.

EDIT: I noticed the name of this thread is misleading, and is an attention grabber. I have to remember never to post while drinking, had to fix a few misspelling errors on the way too. I will admit I like 90% of the mod, there are a few nuances like the above 1% shot chance 'bug' that kinda leave it sour but I have to remind myself there are various bugs in vanilla 1.12 JA2 anyway.
I too think the AI is cheating in 1.13, mostly when it comes to vision. They seem to be able to spot my mercs WAY before mine can spot them. It makes them so much more effective at killing my mercs, it's insanely annoying.

Even night ops specialists get spotted and shot at when PRONED by random soldiers that saw them before they did (they were looking in the right direction). I tried looking the ini files, but nothing about the AI having bonuses
Posted May 24, 2013
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vhailor1: I too think the AI is cheating in 1.13, mostly when it comes to vision. They seem to be able to spot my mercs WAY before mine can spot them. It makes them so much more effective at killing my mercs, it's insanely annoying.

Even night ops specialists get spotted and shot at when PRONED by random soldiers that saw them before they did (they were looking in the right direction). I tried looking the ini files, but nothing about the AI having bonuses
The AI doesn't have any vision bonuses. However, things that may modify vision.
1) Sunglasses/NVG. If you wear the wrong one for the time, you do get a penalty to vision. Check that you are not wearing sunglasses at night.
2) Muzzle flash. If you don't have a flash suppressor or a silencer on your weapon, you can be seen from a huge distance once you fire. Plus, the AI will be able to pinpoint your location to a few tiles, and subsequent shots will allow them to spot you with greater precision.

So, if you don't have a suppressor and/or silencer for night ops, shoot, and move. Don't stay in one spot.
Posted May 24, 2013
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vhailor1: I too think the AI is cheating in 1.13, mostly when it comes to vision. They seem to be able to spot my mercs WAY before mine can spot them. It makes them so much more effective at killing my mercs, it's insanely annoying.

Even night ops specialists get spotted and shot at when PRONED by random soldiers that saw them before they did (they were looking in the right direction). I tried looking the ini files, but nothing about the AI having bonuses
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JMich: The AI doesn't have any vision bonuses. However, things that may modify vision.
1) Sunglasses/NVG. If you wear the wrong one for the time, you do get a penalty to vision. Check that you are not wearing sunglasses at night.
2) Muzzle flash. If you don't have a flash suppressor or a silencer on your weapon, you can be seen from a huge distance once you fire. Plus, the AI will be able to pinpoint your location to a few tiles, and subsequent shots will allow them to spot you with greater precision.

So, if you don't have a suppressor and/or silencer for night ops, shoot, and move. Don't stay in one spot.
oh, one guy spotted Thor, proned, with his NVG Mk2, and in complete darkness. Remember he's a stealth specialist. He was able to shot him right in the head dropping him to 15 hp. That's when I called BS on the game, but I still love it. I really need to find a new sniper. Buns left cause she hates Fox....

edit. BTW, Thor was looking in the direction the soldier was coming from, that's where I'm calling BS, since the soldier was moving and Thor static.
Post edited May 24, 2013 by vhailor1
Posted May 25, 2013
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vhailor1: I really need to find a new sniper. Buns left cause she hates Fox....
As long as you don't put them in the same team (not sure about the same sector), you should be able to use both.
Post edited May 25, 2013 by HertogJan
Posted May 25, 2013
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vhailor1: I really need to find a new sniper. Buns left cause she hates Fox....
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HertogJan: As long as you don't put them in the same team (not sure about the same sector), you should be able to use both.
well, not sure if my game is bugged then, because Buns refuses to renew her contract as long as Fox is in the team
Post edited May 25, 2013 by vhailor1
Posted May 26, 2013
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HertogJan: As long as you don't put them in the same team (not sure about the same sector), you should be able to use both.
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vhailor1: well, not sure if my game is bugged then, because Buns refuses to renew her contract as long as Fox is in the team
Find a merc Buns likes, and hire him/her. As long as a "Liked" merc is on the team, the contract will be accepted, no matter what other mercs you have. For more info, see How does it work? Part 9 - Relationsships over at the Bear's Pit.
Posted May 27, 2013
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vhailor1: well, not sure if my game is bugged then, because Buns refuses to renew her contract as long as Fox is in the team
Did you put them in seperate teams? And in seperate sectors if that doesn't work?
I had the combination Lynx and Buzz working for me in 2 different teams.

Otherwise, use JMich' solution.
Post edited May 27, 2013 by HertogJan
Posted May 27, 2013
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vhailor1: well, not sure if my game is bugged then, because Buns refuses to renew her contract as long as Fox is in the team
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JMich: Find a merc Buns likes, and hire him/her. As long as a "Liked" merc is on the team, the contract will be accepted, no matter what other mercs you have. For more info, see How does it work? Part 9 - Relationsships over at the Bear's Pit.
thx, I'm gonna do that. Nice info!

But, I put my campaign on hold when I found out my mouse wheel isn't working and I can't use any auto-only weapons... this really sucks! There should have been a keyboard key to increase the aim levels...
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Jagged Alliance seriesJA2 1.13 mod/patch sucks to me(19 posts)(19 posts)
(19 posts)