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Actually, what I really think could benefit GOG customers would be informing those who have the game on their wishlist that the game will be pulled by a certain time/date. This would allow those who want to get the game before it gets pulled a chance to buy the game.

Similar to how forum replies are pushed to a notification system on the website, why not have an option under account settings so that when a game on your wishlist is on sale, or a game gets pulled, we can get an email (or even just a notification on the site) so that people don't miss out on owning the game?
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Kakihara: It is literally illegal to keep selling when you're hit with what basically amounts to a cease and desist of selling a game online because of rights issues.

A 'heads up' doesn't factor in to it. And these kind of legal tangles happen behind closed doors most of the time so it's not like GOG could've seen it coming.

They know there's an issue when they are ordered to stop selling the game immediately.

I don't see where a lack of transparency comes into it.
Of course this.

It's funny how people think there's something GOG really can do about such things, and they come up with some strange solutions.

Only when GOG knows about game being removed on a certain date (Fallout, TOCA, Collin), they can announce that.

In other cases, they have to remove game immediately and they cannot notify users about that in advance. There's nothing to discuss, nothing can be done about that, period.
Post edited February 03, 2014 by SLP2000
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G-Doc: Hello!

As per request from Fun Box, we are sadly forced to remove Guilty Gear X2 Reload from active sales as of today, 4:00PM GMT. This is caused by legal dispute between the owners of the rights to the game.

Guilty Gear Isuka, however, remains unaffected.

We sincerely hope that we'll be able to re-introduce Guilty Gear X2 Reload to GOG.com catalog soon.

If you have purchased the game earlier, you'll still be able to download the files off your virtual shelf.

We're very sorry for the inconvenience this may have caused you.
What? another one?

how many more games must fall prey to the legal monster?

When will this madness end? The Fallout removal wounds still hurt, G, they run deep...
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vulchor: I disagree. Putting this on the front page WOULD make them a GOOD business. They would be showing transparency, which is what customers like from businesses.
I agree with this.
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Zeether: Ugh, seriously? First Re-Volt and now this. At least I own #Reload, but this is crap. Arc System Works should have gotten the rights to the port themselves and not FunBox.

I hope the new Guilty Gear comes to PC so we don't have to deal with this happening.
Oh no! Re-Volt is gone too? This is what I'm talking about! How are we supposed to know that games keep are being removed when GOG doesn't announce it on the front page. Yes, we can scour the forums, but I don't have time to do that every single day. I do have time to visit the front page every day, and I do.

Thankfully I bought Re-Volt as soon as it was released here because it was my favorite PC racing game. It wasn't even that long ago.

I know it is not GOG's fault that the games get removed, however notice would be nice. As soon as GOG knows they NEED to make it obvious to us what is happening!
It's understandable for people to be upset or disappointed if a game they like gets removed from the GOG catalogue, and I would be too. But people really should think about whether it is fair to direct their frustration at GOG.com over things like this. If you look at GOG's history, they do their best to always make decisions in the best interest of themselves and their customers and if they actually have a legal standing and way of announcing something ahead of time without violating intellectual property laws and claims that are presented to them, it stands to reason that in the interest of serving their customers - and of obtaining some last minute sales - they would automatically do this for everyone. That is to say - if they can announce something and it is beneficial to customers and would make some sales - they would - because it would benefit both the customer and GOG.

Seriously, think about it. Why *wouldn't* they? The fact is that they *would* do this. If a game is silently removed from the catalogue and there is no announcement about it, then there is a good reason for that. The reason is probably not something they can legally get into details about, or for other reasons which they aren't able to disclose for some other business related reason. It could be a non-disclosure agreement (and thus legally binding) or some other reason that they're not able to share or possibly not able to even discuss or acknowledge and which is beyond their control completely and in the hands of the legal system or some company's lawyers or something.

Let's give GOG.com the benefit of doubt here. They go way out of their way to obtain all kinds of extra goodies for gamers, and try to make their products special. They're not going to blindly and abruptly throw games out of the catalogue suddenly and without warning unless they have a gun to their head in the form of legal documentation requiring them to do it.

It's also unreasonable to demand or expect that they will even have the option to announce it ahead of time or to allow people to have one last chance to buy it, and if they went ahead and did it anyway, they very well might be violating some order they've been given and end up getting sued for having done so. GOG getting sued because they tried to make people happy at the expense of ignoring a legal request temporarily to be kind to customers and ending up getting sued and losing a pile of money and possibly having a publisher or developer remove all of their other games from the catalogue for not complying with a legal request isn't going to make any GOG customers happier about that.

In the world of intellectual property - shit happens. Companies end up with disagreements over what they think their legal rights are, and lawyers and judges decide it in a court room and hand out judgments. Papers get passed around that say "do this and do it right now" and you just do it and do it right now without the luxury to prepare your customers for the loss of something and pad it out with special circumstances to make everyone happy.

If it's even possible for them to let people know about something in advance and/or make it available on sale or something for a limited time before an item gets removed, why would they not do this? Of course they would do it, so give them a break already. They knew Fallout was probably going to have to be removed way ahead of time and presumably they were able to predict it and offer up the free promo they did because the circumstances of that particular game and situation permitted them that option, but that doesn't mean every situation that comes up gives them that luxury, and they wont be able to predict every possible thing that happens in advance either.

GOG brings games here in our best interest and they don't remove them randomly or wrecklessly and I'm sure they're just as sad or more sad to see a game leave the catalogue than any of us.

As for who to direct the anger at, the parties involved in a given dispute very well may have good legal and other reasons to be in their dispute. Here's a hypothetical example for everyone:

Let's say developer XYZ wrote a game and it is for sale on GOG, but XYZ sold the rights to the game for $500,000 to company PQR starting in Jan 2015. The way the legal agreement was written up company XYZ thought they still could sell the game, and that they were just giving the license to another company to also sell it at that date, but the actual wording as written is that they are transferring all rights to company PQR. XYZ perhaps made an honest mistake in not writing the agreement up to match what they were thinking and expecting, or perhaps they simply misunderstood the agreement in the first place. Legal mumbo jumbo can be confusing as hell. Or, maybe XYZ was pressed for money and sold their rights even though they didn't want to, and later on tried to reneg on the agreement by trying to find a loophole in the contract or something. Either way, the two companies end up disagreeing about what the legal contract they have with each other actually says and what rights are granted to each concerning the property. None of us know a damn thing about the details of the agreement most likely and so none of us are remotely able to make a judgment as to which company is legally owns the game. We may have butterflies in our stomachs for the company XYZ that developed the game for their skills and our enjoyment of it, but if they sold the game to PQR for whatever reason under a contract and they either honour that contract and it passes on to PQR, or if there is a disagreement and the two companies fight it out in court and a judge decides that PQR is correct and owns the rights, then legally, morally, ethically, PQR owns the rights to the game even if we all perceive company PQR to be pricks. ;o) A company isn't going to ignore a contract they've entered into with another company just because a small contingency of people who use the product have butterflies in their stomach over the original creator of the product.

If PQR owns the product now legally, whatever the product is then they have the legal right to decide who has a license to sell it. Why wouldn't PQR also sell it on GOG? That's a good question, and the answer might be that they would sell it on GOG but until the slow moving legal system makes up its mind who owns the game, and the other negotiations and whatnot that has to happen behind the scenes, there can be a timeframe where a game can't legally be sold because the legal agreement say between company XYZ and GOG doesn't pass along to become an agreement between PQR and GOG, and PQR and GOG need to discuss things and come up with a deal separately. That might happen right away, or it might take months. Rebranding has to happen, possibly splash screen changes, etc. and it might be low priority stuff for PQR to even do it considering their other games and products. They might not get around to it being important for 6 months or maybe never. We don't know these things.

It's perfectly fine to be upset about a game being taken away, but to be angry with GOG is very assumptive and unreasonable because none of us know the fine details of the legal agreements in place, whether or not any are being negotiated, what NDAs might be in place etc. This business is full of NDAs and often for good reasons, and so companies can't even share information with the public even if they wanted to. Even if they don't have NDAs, things like Sarbanes-Oxley can come into play and make lawyers get fidgety. Add to that the fact that when you do decide to share information and it is about something many people aren't going to like - you just fuel their anger and give them ammunition to throw up in your face, blog angrily about with references, etc. and it's often better to just shut up and not tell anyone anything and play it safe, or to make neutral positive comments publicly about the situation like "we're evaluating things and hope to be able to have an announcement about this in the future" which doesn't commit to anything or really say anything concrete, legally worrisome, etc.

In short, intellectual property law sucks, shit happens, and you don't even get a T-shirt.

Besides, who cares when Zork is still there anyway, just load up Zork and try to avoid being eaten by a grue. Just try it! I bet you can't do it!

;oP
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skeletonbow: [snipped for brevity reasons, but well worth a read]

In short, intellectual property law sucks, shit happens, and you don't even get a T-shirt.

Besides, who cares when Zork is still there anyway, just load up Zork and try to avoid being eaten by a grue. Just try it! I bet you can't do it!

;oP
Great post, and it's awesome to finally see someone with a bit of common sense clarifying these issues. I've been saying the same thing, albeit in an abridged, more convoluted manner, for quite a while, to no avail, so here's to hoping your post sheds some light on the whole thing.
Wow, skeletonbow, very well said. That really clarifies a lot of things about GOG games being removed. Might also explain for example why GOG not only removed Colin McRae Rally 2005 from the catalog but also from people's accounts. They must've only been able to get it on the site provided they agreed to totally remove it when the rights to sell the game expired. Can't really blame GOG.com, their hands were tied as they almost always are when they remove games.

Still it was nice of them to give warning about its total removal and even bundled it with a weekend deal. Just sad that isn't always the case due to the fickleness of IP laws.
Post edited February 18, 2014 by Eniena
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Eniena: Wow, skeletonbow, very well said. That really clarifies a lot of things about GOG games being removed. Might also explain for example why GOG not only removed Colin McRae Rally 2005 from the catalog but also from people's accounts. They must've only been able to get it on the site provided they agreed to totally remove it when the rights to sell the game expired. Can't really blame GOG.com, their hands were tied as they almost always are when they remove games.

Still it was nice of them to give warning about its total removal and even bundled it with a weekend deal. Just sad that isn't always the case due to the fickleness of IP laws.
I previously worked for a major OSS software vendor for a number of years and from time to time a legal issue would come up regarding copyrights, patents, trademarks in the software. In most cases we were instructed to remove certain features from the software or to remove certain software entirely. We (the engineers) did not always even get to know the details of the legal issues and just got notice from the legal department "this software has to be removed from all shipping versions of the product ASAP" and that was that. With few exceptions we were not able to discuss the details of the matter publicly or even amongst ourselves due to reasons we couldn't even be told. From what I understand, when companies have intellectual property conflicts they often settle them in or out of court in such a manner that they come to an agreement of some sort and that agreement often if not almost always includes a gag order that they are not to discuss or share the details of the lawsuit or the resolution etc.

Generally companies want to settle the legal problems and move forward and put it behind them and sharing the information publicly can have unexpected consequences, both from customers and also possibly triggering other legal problems. Lawsuits can be very expensive and so companies tend to take IP issues very seriously and "play it safe" trying not to rock any boats or ruffle any feathers of anyone out there who has a team of lawyers. Many folk will see this as a big ugly system of litigation, but it is what it is and it isn't going to vanish just because people like us hate the consequences from the customer viewpoint sometimes. ;o/ Some of these things will always exist just due to the nature of ownership of things and disputes that can arise, but at the same time some of the lawsuits flung around out there, in particular with the patent system - are horrid abuses of the patent system as a whole and the legal system. Hopefully in the future we'll see some serious reforms to the laws regarding intellectual property and try to reign them in to what they were actually created for rather than the circus it's become. ;o/

Did you see the news about the Candy Swipe game author being sued by the company who copied his product and called it Candy Crush which went on to become popular? The company that copied it sued him and is now trying to abuse the legal system to force him to no longer be able to call his game CandySwipe, which was created several years before their game. Apparently they went and bought some other game company that had made something called Candy Crusher or something like that years before and now that they own that are claiming their use of the name predates his use of Candyswipe. It'd a disgusting and deplorable abuse of the legal system by evil greedy people, really sickening to see. ;o/

Ah well, hopefully the situation improves in the future as reforms happen, we can always hope for that. :)
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keeveek: New customer comes to GOG for the very first time

He sees on the front page with big letters

WE ARE GOING TO REMOVE SYSTEM SHOCK 2 FROM CATALOGUE

Customer thinks "ooopsie. I don't think I should buy here if they are removing games" - customer lost. Most of the people are reading only headlines, they wouldn't think too much about the cause for removal or anything.

Also, preparing front page new takes time and effort, while usually they can only give you few hours of heads up before removing the game, if they are able to give you any heads up at all.

That would be waste of resources on stuff that will be no longer here in a minute.
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vulchor: The minor loss in reputation due to a game being removed in a circumstance that GOG had no control over is vastly outweighed by the major gain in reputation due to honest transparent business practices.

Also, you are wrong, it is very easy for GOG to add a post to the front page. GOG made the announcement of the loss of the Fallout series in a few different front page posts, so why not Guilty Gear X2? The Fallout series is more popular, so by your argument that it would lower confidence of new customers to make it well known that a game is pulled from the shelves, Fallout would be far more damaging, yet GOG did the right thing and made sure everyone knew it was coming. Your argument is invalid.
I'm with vulchor here.
GOG should give a front page heads upon this issue. Especially considering GGX2#R is probably the best GG game for PC and a fan fav here on GOG. At least I copied my purchase to my external hard-drive, like I did XIII, Second Sight, and Re-Volt. One of the benefits of DRM-free software.
I just found out about this today, this is extremely shitty. I imagine Kiss Ltd (the new holders of the rights) might put this out on Steam for $10 just like Isuka and appear to everyone else like the amazing publisher who brought them Guilty Gear games there, while us the DRM-free fans get shafted. Not fucking cool.
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Jotamide: I just found out about this today, this is extremely shitty. I imagine Kiss Ltd (the new holders of the rights) might put this out on Steam for $10 just like Isuka and appear to everyone else like the amazing publisher who brought them Guilty Gear games there, while us the DRM-free fans get shafted. Not fucking cool.
IIRC, Kiss is only a company that aids in the publication of games; the rights still lie with Funbox, which is why they were the ones who sent the request according to the GOG staff.

Beyond all of that, I don't think it's right to accuse and point fingers when this may all very well stem from legal troubles and rights disputes. Hopefully it will all be resolved when the dust settles, and everyone can enjoy #R/Isuka again.
Perhaps the Powers that Be will realize how wrong this is and will atone by including GG Accent Core and GG X2 Slash when they return GG X2 & Isuka to GOG.

Could we possibly get the related (but vastly inferior) BlazBlue in the interim? I really don't want to buy a game from Steam, especially a game that has no benefit (eg:Steam multiplayer) from being on Valve's DRM service.
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vrmlbasic: Perhaps the Powers that Be will realize how wrong this is and will atone by including GG Accent Core and GG X2 Slash when they return GG X2 & Isuka to GOG.

Could we possibly get the related (but vastly inferior) BlazBlue in the interim? I really don't want to buy a game from Steam, especially a game that has no benefit (eg:Steam multiplayer) from being on Valve's DRM service.
Well, with Blazblue: Calamity Trigger here today, I guess you could say the void has been "filled" for the time being. :)
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vrmlbasic: Perhaps the Powers that Be will realize how wrong this is and will atone by including GG Accent Core and GG X2 Slash when they return GG X2 & Isuka to GOG.

Could we possibly get the related (but vastly inferior) BlazBlue in the interim? I really don't want to buy a game from Steam, especially a game that has no benefit (eg:Steam multiplayer) from being on Valve's DRM service.
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FlamingFirewire: Well, with Blazblue: Calamity Trigger here today, I guess you could say the void has been "filled" for the time being. :)
Wow. "Ask and ye shall receive" indeed.