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Truehare: Funny, I completed them without exploits and barely using the bow... And I just love the way my character fights terribly at first; it only makes it all that much more satisfying when I become a badass later.

I really wish Piranha Bytes had stuck to their guns on that design choice, it's simply brilliant.
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lordhoff: I do understand what he's saying, though. One meets the orcs way before one is ready for them so often one has to rely on standing on the seige equipment (in II) where they can't get you, etc.
Yeah, I also understand, but that's what makes those games so good in my opinion: you can (and most often, will) meet challenges you are not in the least ready to take on, and will have to run away a lot before you are prepared. That's what makes it so satisfying when you come back later, ten levels stronger and armed to the teeth, and proceed to wipe the floor with your enemies' faces.

In my first playthrough, I did the same thing you did: stayed on the battering ram killing orcs who couldn't get to me; but the second time, I just ran from them, fulfilled my mission in the Valley (which didn't require killing any orcs) and went back to Khorinis. I came back to fight them only in Chapter Four or Five (don't rightly remember which one), and by then... it was glorious. WAY more fulfilling than exploiting the battering ram trick.

My point is, the Gothic games (and Risen to an extent) are not necessarily bad, they just take a different approach... one that I, personally, find extremely bold and engrossing, and fear seeing extinct because PB are trying to appease the majority.
Post edited September 19, 2017 by Truehare
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Truehare: I really wish Piranha Bytes had stuck to their guns on that design choice, it's simply brilliant.
True.

What makes it worse is that no one else seems interested in copying the formula, so you're left with Gothic 1, Gothic 2, Risen 1, and that's about it.
Post edited September 18, 2017 by UniversalWolf
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Truehare: I really wish Piranha Bytes had stuck to their guns on that design choice, it's simply brilliant.
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UniversalWolf: True.

What makes it worse is that no one else seems interested in copying the formula, so you're left with Gothic 1, Gothic 2, Risen 1, and that's about it.
Have you played Risen 3 with the "Real Enhanced Edition" mod? I found it takes the game VERY close to that "Gothic feeling".

Here's hoping Elex will bring a little of it back too... but I'm not really counting on it.
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lordhoff: I do understand what he's saying, though. One meets the orcs way before one is ready for them so often one has to rely on standing on the seige equipment (in II) where they can't get you, etc.
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Truehare: Yeah, I also understand, but that's what makes those games so good in my opinion: you can (and most often, will) meet challenges you are not in the least ready to take on, and will have to run away a lot before you are prepared. That's what makes it so satisfying when you come back later, ten levels stronger and armed to the teeth, and proceed to wipe the floor with your enemies' faces.

In my first playthrough, I did the same thing you did: stayed on the battering ram killing orcs who couldn't get to me; but the second time, I just ran from them, fulfilled my mission in the Valley (which didn't require killing any orcs) and went back to Khorinis. I came back to fight them only in Chapter Four or Five (don't rightly remember which one), and by then... it was glorious. WAY more fulfilling than exploiting the battering ram trick.

My point is, the Gothic games (and Risen to an extent) are not necessarily bad, they just take a different approach... one that I, personally, find extremely bold and engrossing, and fear seeing extinct because PB are trying to appease the majority.
Running through them; never really tried that. I basically just cleared a small path using as much stealth as possible but, yes, relying on the ram for the kills (well, I ran to the ram :) ). When do they give up the chase? Seems that as long as they can see you, they keep coming. i guess as long as you can reach the river, it's fine.

--- fear seeing extinct -----
Yeah, I hear you - the majority seem to like quick and easy. It is the excitement of early game (most RPGs start you as very weak but one gets very strong very quickly) that I like the best. The Gothic series tends to be a lot slower until very strong.
Post edited September 19, 2017 by lordhoff
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Truehare: Yeah, I also understand, but that's what makes those games so good in my opinion: you can (and most often, will) meet challenges you are not in the least ready to take on, and will have to run away a lot before you are prepared. That's what makes it so satisfying when you come back later, ten levels stronger and armed to the teeth, and proceed to wipe the floor with your enemies' faces.

In my first playthrough, I did the same thing you did: stayed on the battering ram killing orcs who couldn't get to me; but the second time, I just ran from them, fulfilled my mission in the Valley (which didn't require killing any orcs) and went back to Khorinis. I came back to fight them only in Chapter Four or Five (don't rightly remember which one), and by then... it was glorious. WAY more fulfilling than exploiting the battering ram trick.

My point is, the Gothic games (and Risen to an extent) are not necessarily bad, they just take a different approach... one that I, personally, find extremely bold and engrossing, and fear seeing extinct because PB are trying to appease the majority.
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lordhoff: Running through them; never really tried that. I basically just cleared a small path using as much stealth as possible but, yes, relying on the ram for the kills (well, I ran to the ram :) ). When do they give up the chase? Seems that as long as they can see you, they keep coming. i guess as long as you can reach the river, it's fine.
It's been some time and I'm not 100% sure, but I think they give up the chase even before you get to the river (EDIT: in fact, just yesterday I started a new playthrough with the DX11 mod installed, and I'll soon be able to test that)... but I do remember it's possible to go through Chapter 2 in its entirety, and even do some sidequests, without having to fight a single orc.

Let them live a little longer, Chapter 4 is coming... :)
Post edited October 28, 2017 by Truehare
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Truehare: Have you played Risen 3 with the "Real Enhanced Edition" mod? I found it takes the game VERY close to that "Gothic feeling".
I haven't tried it, but I'll keep it in mind. Thanks.
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Truehare: Funny, I completed them without exploits and barely using the bow... And I just love the way my character fights terribly at first; it only makes it all that much more satisfying when I become a badass later.

I really wish Piranha Bytes had stuck to their guns on that design choice, it's simply brilliant.
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lordhoff: I do understand what he's saying, though. One meets the orcs way before one is ready for them so often one has to rely on standing on the seige equipment (in II) where they can't get you, etc.
You just need to lure the orcs one by one :D. I never understood people who said fighting in Gothic is just imposible. It's a great system that if mastered allowes you to defeat enemies way stronger than you. In my last playthrough of G2 I got the Dragon bane (or whatever the sword is called in english) when I was only around level 7. This sword is protected by the fricking Dark Paladins and yes if you mastered the combat system you can defeat them, it will probably take a few tries but it is totaly doable.