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Dzsono: Despite all this I don't think there is cause for celebration just yet. Terms and conditions can change whenever they want it and I won't believe it until the console has been released and established.
Why would they change again?
Post edited June 20, 2013 by McDon
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Dzsono: Despite all this I don't think there is cause for celebration just yet. Terms and conditions can change whenever they want it and I won't believe it until the console has been released and established.
Not going to happen. The backlash would be even bigger than the current one, with thousands of people cancelling their pre-orders.

Even Microsoft isn't that stupid :)
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keeveek: Still, mandatory installation on HDD that can't be replaced by a bigger one is going to go south. Especially with 30-50GB games.
The Xbox One supports using USB 3.0 external hard drives for storing games and all other content just like the internal hard drive, so the default storage space doesn't seem to be a barrier this time.
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Bloodygoodgames: Not going to happen. The backlash would be even bigger than the current one, with thousands of people cancelling their pre-orders.

Even Microsoft isn't that stupid :)
It's easier to apologize than to ask for permission. All they have to do is wait a few months and change it in a firmware update. At that point they won't care about the backlash. Also, the backlash will be minimized if they give out a free mini-Halo game with the firmware and claim it was designed to be played on an always online system so they had to make it into one so people could play it. Some people would probably thank them for it. :p
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Adzeth: It's easier to apologize than to ask for permission. All they have to do is wait a few months and change it in a firmware update. At that point they won't care about the backlash. Also, the backlash will be minimized if they give out a free mini-Halo game with the firmware and claim it was designed to be played on an always online system so they had to make it into one so people could play it. Some people would probably thank them for it. :p
How are they going to reimplement the DRM though? Games had to be bundled with a key that would bind the games to your account. These keys are now not going to be bundled with the games. It is technically impossible to arbitrarily bind games to accounts now.
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keeveek: >mandatory installation on HDD
>requires disc in tray

wat...
Hmmm, sounds familiar... (looks at his big pile of old PC CD/DVD games)
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jamyskis: How are they going to reimplement the DRM though? Games had to be bundled with a key that would bind the games to your account. These keys are now not going to be bundled with the games. It is technically impossible to arbitrarily bind games to accounts now.
They might still have the keys, just titled differently. Here, have your multiplayer key that turns into an evil skull key in a few months. Another possibility would be that they'll release a few editions of the first games without 'em and later introduce them as a feature :p
1) Announce new console with obnoxious feature
2) Gain a lot of attention due to obnoxious feature
3) Reverse stance on obnoxious feature
4) Get a lot of attention for reversing stance

How do we know that the stance reversal wasn't the plan planned since before the console announcement?

A risky manoeuvre to be sure, but if its aim was to get a lot of mindshare, it definitely succeeded in doing that and reversing the stance also makes them look like they listen to the customers..

Same sort of logic with the Vista release. Everyone was using XP and Windows 7 didn't have enough to make people move to it when compared directly. Release some crap inbetween (Vista) and people are touting how much better 7 was compared to Vista, making 7 look better than XP than it is.

Replace XP with Xbox 360, Vista with Xbone (i.e. the DRM concept) and 7 with the Xbox One (i.e. the reversed stance).

However, I am saying this about a company that got "Tile Windows Horizontally" wrong and still hasn't fixed it. "Never attribute to malice.." and all that :P
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CymTyr: A full-priced digital game is 99.9% of the time the same price as its physical equivalent, is my point. It's only through huge sales in the digital circle that we get the prices we were sort of promised when it was started.
I think with digital items, the initial price is largely irrelevant. It is for those people who just have to have that very game brand-new, no matter what it costs. Most of them would probably still buy it if it cost $200 instead of $60. It is for the rich kids, and the most keen fans who can't wait.

I think nowadays the discounted prices (all the way from e.g. $30 to getting the game for $5 from sales) are what the publishers are expecting "normal people" to pay for it, those who are tighter with their money and are not the most keen fans of the game.

Especially if you count the various DLCs, which the publishers are hoping people to buy after they have bought the base game cheaply. I don't think it is a coincidence that some a bit older AAA titles have ended up even in PWYW bundles (like HumbleBundle), incomplete. So you get the base game for peanuts, but pay more to make it complete.

Or a variation of that, how Mass Effect 2 (alone) made it to some such bundle. I presume they are expecting people, who got that bundle, to buy also Mass Effect 1 and 3 separately to complete the trilogy (and I think even ME2 was missing DLC which you would also have to buy separately). There weren't probably many people who already had ME1 and ME3, not to mention the missing ME2 DLC, but not the ME2 base game itself.

For me that bundle was worthless because I knew I'd want the complete trilogy anyway, and I wasn't expecting the missing parts of the trilogy to come separately in similar bundles.

It is becoming pretty much the "free-2-play" model, or close to it. Pay peanuts first, and more later to make it complete.
Post edited June 20, 2013 by timppu
Bottom line for me is that, any company that would try to fuck gamers over the way MS did with the DRM, 24 hour connection, one hour at a friends house, lend a disc once only....well they deserve any financial backlash they get, I would never even consider buying a XBOX One from a company that thought it was a good idea to screw us over like that.
But, Bill will not be denied, further down the road, who's to say they wont change the T&C.
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xyem: 1) Announce new console with obnoxious feature
2) Gain a lot of attention due to obnoxious feature
3) Reverse stance on obnoxious feature
4) Get a lot of attention for reversing stance

How do we know that the stance reversal wasn't the plan planned since before the console announcement?
It would be the worst plan ever created.

Thanks to this "plan", Sony gained a lot of attention and good PR for free.

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timppu: Hmmm, sounds familiar... (looks at his big pile of old PC CD/DVD games)
There is a reason why some things should stay in the past...
Post edited June 20, 2013 by keeveek
GJ Neckbeards, we stopped innovation! We will get the slightly upgraded xbox 360 we all asked for.
I'm glad that Microsoft saw fit to finally see sense, but at the same time, I don't understand why they didn't keep the sharing and resale functionality for digital sales. It feels almost as if they wanted to spite the people who campaigned against having their physical purchases locked.

Kinda sucks for those people (as minority as they may be) that buy solely digital on consoles, although I must confess that the loss of such a feature doesn't really bother me personally that much.
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Nroug7: GJ Neckbeards, we stopped innovation! We will get the slightly upgraded xbox 360 we all asked for.
Ah yes, the old "anyone who opposes my point of view is opposing innovation and progress" argument. I believe the Nazis and Stalinist Russia used the same in their propaganda in the 1930s and 1940s.
Post edited June 20, 2013 by jamyskis
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jamyskis: Kinda sucks for those people (as minority as they may be) that buy solely digital on consoles, although I must confess that the loss of such a feature doesn't really bother me personally that much.
Only a subset of users buy digitally on consoles, and only a subset of that subset would make use of lending functionality if it was present (because those wanting to lend to friends on any sort of regular basis are more likely to buy retail in the first place to skip the prerequisites).

Digital lending might still be added post-launch, of course.
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Arkose: Digital lending might still be added post-launch, of course.
Why not, I say? I see Microsoft is pretty fixated on their all-digital future, and if the incentives help to strengthen the rights of digital buyers, I'm all for it.

Just as long as those of us who buy physical don't have to suffer as a result. That's the key thing, and it's the biggest problem on PC right now.
Post edited June 20, 2013 by jamyskis