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I keep slogging along in World of Warcraft. I am playing very casually. Some days I don't log in at all. I think I did this to myself by focusing completely on running two characters through all the Argent Tournament dailies, day after day, grinding faction, eager to just get off the faction treadmill and finally be able to buy the very cool heirloom armor and weapons for all my alts to use. They have all the heirlooms needed from the guild vendor. I just need the Argent Tournament ones to complete four sets in total.

On a bright note, one character finally became exalted with all the needed factions and became Exalted Argent Champion of the Horde, got his Crusader title and had enough champions seals at that point to get the caster robe, shoulders and staff. I mailed them right away to my Tauren Priest and boy is he rockin now. It actually made me laugh out loud, looking at how cool he looks with big elaborate shoulder gear, the cool weapon, the OP stats he now has. He is only level 5 and he is now so OP it is ridiculous! lol I want this for all the alts and I want to enjoy leveling them solo through the "new" old world at least. I've though some should visit The Burning Crusade later on and even Northrend. I'm not thrilled about doing any more Cataclysm high level zones. The alts adventures may end there.

I have two characters than can play in the new Pandaria content. One has made it to level 87 so far. The other who just became Crusader in Argent Tournament is almost level 86 just from doing Argent dailies so much.

There is actually a lot of fun stuff ahead for me in WoW if I stick with it. So what's the problem?

Grinding. Grinding dailies for another two months to get the rest of the heirloom gear IF I log in every single day. By the that point, the other toon (the Druid who is 87) will hit Crusader too and between the both of them can in an hour's time each day over more MONTHS clean up and get all the cool Argent Tournament pets and mounts. The pets are pretty easy to do but the mounts cost a lot of time. I'm not sure they are ever happening. I'm not sure how much more is happening period because I am tired of logging in and feeling compelled to grind the boring dailies after which I no longer feel like playing WoW and log.

It is as if I am a very tired old man slogging along on a treadmill at a slow speed and I still want that carrot out in front me but i feel so tired. i hate to give up but then again I sometimes feel really stupid for even subjecting myself to this grindfest excuse for "gameplay." I know, nobody is making me do this. Nobody is holding a gun to my head. But if you've ever play an MMO you can probably relate to what I am talking about here. It can be a love/hate relationship many times. Parts of it are genuinely fun but too much of it is just boring, time consuming, not fun, grinding. In fact part of the drag that is Argent Tournament for me is the gameplay itself. I hate jousting. I've become good at it. I win every time. It is a given now that I will. But it is not fun for me at all. I think it sucks. I just do it in pursuit of the rewards that will be very fun to have later on if I last through this crap.

And I am paying 15 bucks a month for the "privilege" of being served up gameplay for Pavlov's dogs. Again, sometimes I feel pretty stupid really but the allure of reaching a point where it actually is fun has kept me grinding on, however unhappy. If ever there was meaningless filler, daily quests in WoW are it.

Don't get me wrong though, at times WoW is genuinely a good time, there is humor, a cool world to explore and quest in even if the quests are just exercises in killing and collecting this and that. That variety in combat when you casually play different classes spruces things up. I personally am done with MMO "endgame" and raiding. Grouping with guildies I could enjoy at higher levels some but even that not a lot. I just like fooling around, having fun killing stuff and exploring the world. It is a fun place to be at times.

Daily quests are the devil though. i hate them. And WoW is just loaded with them. The end game is gated with them, you need to grind dailies for this faction and that to get things like say your shoulder enchants. I am just not doing it. For me when a toon hits level cap he is probably till next expansion. Time to go have fun with a different class then.

Sorry I ramble on here complaining for so long. I hope this is an interesting read for some who play WoW or MMOs and can relate to what I am talking about here.

Two months more of daily, every single day grind or it takes even longer before I can get all my ducks in a row and get to the fun stuff.

Maybe I am weak and should just man up, stop whining and get that grinding done so I can reap the rewards and have fun with the alts. OR, maybe i am stupid letting Blizzard do this to me for 15 bucks a month when I could buy 2 GOGs a month with the money. I could also change games. I have some characters on LoTRO, own some of the expansions and had some fun there when I was playing it. At least with LoTRO you get some good lore and story along with scripted events at times which make you feel like you are play a real RPG. And Turbine does F2P right. I already bought the bag and bank space I needed. I already own the content I need for a while. I don't need to spend a cent until I am ready for the next batch of content to play though with multiple toons. I can play the game on my own schedule too without wasting any money. Don't feel like playing a few weeks? Busy with other games? It's cool. You aren't spending a cent until you are actually getting something for it.

But there is just one little problem... grinding traits and deeds as I recall. Me thinks there is plenty of grinding stuff in LoTRO too. But maybe that can be ignored if you aren't concerned with end game play, min/maxing, etc. I'd have to check that out to see.

I've been hooked on MMOs since Asheron's Call came out even though there is a lot I can rightly criticize about them. There is something magical about their enormous worlds to explore and that other real people populate them. The RPG elements of gameplay (lacking though they be) are fun for me. That said, I am tired. I am burned out on the mindless grinds that infest MMO games. Maybe it is finally time to let them go and spend my time enjoying games with engaging content and variety to keep me interested, to keep me having fun. There is something wrong (and wrong with me I guess) when I am logging into play something I would complain about as I have here.

I'm interested in what you guys think of WoW, LoTRO and other MMOs in general. Feel free to tell me what you think I should do. I am open to suggestions.

TL:DR - I play WoW and I am so tired of daily quest grinds and any grinds. I am bummed out that months of daily quest grinding will be needed to fully outfit my alts with heirloom gear I want for them so I can then get to the fun part.
Post edited December 11, 2012 by dirtyharry50
Why bother with the dailies? I did not do them much when I played, had enough to do without them. I stopped over a year ago, but had (I think....) 5 level 80's, 10+ 70's and several from level 10-60. Not a single heirloom item between them. (also on all my chars I had one Honor kill... and it was by accident with a priest)
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dirtyharry50: I keep slogging along in World of Warcraft. I am playing very casually. Some days I don't log in at all. I think I did this to myself by focusing completely on running two characters through all the Argent Tournament dailies, day after day, grinding faction, eager to just get off the faction treadmill and finally be able to buy the very cool heirloom armor and weapons for all my alts to use. They have all the heirlooms needed from the guild vendor. I just need the Argent Tournament ones to complete four sets in total.

On a bright note, one character finally became exalted with all the needed factions and became Exalted Argent Champion of the Horde, got his Crusader title and had enough champions seals at that point to get the caster robe, shoulders and staff. I mailed them right away to my Tauren Priest and boy is he rockin now. It actually made me laugh out loud, looking at how cool he looks with big elaborate shoulder gear, the cool weapon, the OP stats he now has. He is only level 5 and he is now so OP it is ridiculous! lol I want this for all the alts and I want to enjoy leveling them solo through the "new" old world at least. I've though some should visit The Burning Crusade later on and even Northrend. I'm not thrilled about doing any more Cataclysm high level zones. The alts adventures may end there.

I have two characters than can play in the new Pandaria content. One has made it to level 87 so far. The other who just became Crusader in Argent Tournament is almost level 86 just from doing Argent dailies so much.

There is actually a lot of fun stuff ahead for me in WoW if I stick with it. So what's the problem?

Grinding. Grinding dailies for another two months to get the rest of the heirloom gear IF I log in every single day. By the that point, the other toon (the Druid who is 87) will hit Crusader too and between the both of them can in an hour's time each day over more MONTHS clean up and get all the cool Argent Tournament pets and mounts. The pets are pretty easy to do but the mounts cost a lot of time. I'm not sure they are ever happening. I'm not sure how much more is happening period because I am tired of logging in and feeling compelled to grind the boring dailies after which I no longer feel like playing WoW and log.

It is as if I am a very tired old man slogging along on a treadmill at a slow speed and I still want that carrot out in front me but i feel so tired. i hate to give up but then again I sometimes feel really stupid for even subjecting myself to this grindfest excuse for "gameplay." I know, nobody is making me do this. Nobody is holding a gun to my head. But if you've ever play an MMO you can probably relate to what I am talking about here. It can be a love/hate relationship many times. Parts of it are genuinely fun but too much of it is just boring, time consuming, not fun, grinding. In fact part of the drag that is Argent Tournament for me is the gameplay itself. I hate jousting. I've become good at it. I win every time. It is a given now that I will. But it is not fun for me at all. I think it sucks. I just do it in pursuit of the rewards that will be very fun to have later on if I last through this crap.

And I am paying 15 bucks a month for the "privilege" of being served up gameplay for Pavlov's dogs. Again, sometimes I feel pretty stupid really but the allure of reaching a point where it actually is fun has kept me grinding on, however unhappy. If ever there was meaningless filler, daily quests in WoW are it.

Don't get me wrong though, at times WoW is genuinely a good time, there is humor, a cool world to explore and quest in even if the quests are just exercises in killing and collecting this and that. That variety in combat when you casually play different classes spruces things up. I personally am done with MMO "endgame" and raiding. Grouping with guildies I could enjoy at higher levels some but even that not a lot. I just like fooling around, having fun killing stuff and exploring the world. It is a fun place to be at times.

Daily quests are the devil though. i hate them. And WoW is just loaded with them. The end game is gated with them, you need to grind dailies for this faction and that to get things like say your shoulder enchants. I am just not doing it. For me when a toon hits level cap he is probably till next expansion. Time to go have fun with a different class then.

Sorry I ramble on here complaining for so long. I hope this is an interesting read for some who play WoW or MMOs and can relate to what I am talking about here.

Two months more of daily, every single day grind or it takes even longer before I can get all my ducks in a row and get to the fun stuff.

Maybe I am weak and should just man up, stop whining and get that grinding done so I can reap the rewards and have fun with the alts. OR, maybe i am stupid letting Blizzard do this to me for 15 bucks a month when I could buy 2 GOGs a month with the money. I could also change games. I have some characters on LoTRO, own some of the expansions and had some fun there when I was playing it. At least with LoTRO you get some good lore and story along with scripted events at times which make you feel like you are play a real RPG. And Turbine does F2P right. I already bought the bag and bank space I needed. I already own the content I need for a while. I don't need to spend a cent until I am ready for the next batch of content to play though with multiple toons. I can play the game on my own schedule too without wasting any money. Don't feel like playing a few weeks? Busy with other games? It's cool. You aren't spending a cent until you are actually getting something for it.

But there is just one little problem... grinding traits and deeds as I recall. Me thinks there is plenty of grinding stuff in LoTRO too. But maybe that can be ignored if you aren't concerned with end game play, min/maxing, etc. I'd have to check that out to see.

I've been hooked on MMOs since Asheron's Call came out even though there is a lot I can rightly criticize about them. There is something magical about their enormous worlds to explore and that other real people populate them. The RPG elements of gameplay (lacking though they be) are fun for me. That said, I am tired. I am burned out on the mindless grinds that infest MMO games. Maybe it is finally time to let them go and spend my time enjoying games with engaging content and variety to keep me interested, to keep me having fun. There is something wrong (and wrong with me I guess) when I am logging into play something I would complain about as I have here.

I'm interested in what you guys think of WoW, LoTRO and other MMOs in general. Feel free to tell me what you think I should do. I am open to suggestions.

TL:DR - I play WoW and I am so tired of daily quest grinds and any grinds. I am bummed out that months of daily quest grinding will be needed to fully outfit my alts with heirloom gear I want for them so I can then get to the fun part.
This is what killled Wow for me. Over time I grew tired of doing the same 'dailys' over and over again, especially with alts. Wow was a great game when it first shipped, but the never ending treadmill design finally forced me to quit.
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dirtyharry50: TL:DR - I play WoW and I am so tired of daily quest grinds and any grinds. I am bummed out that months of daily quest grinding will be needed to fully outfit my alts with heirloom gear I want for them so I can then get to the fun part.
This is what burned me out on the game and kept me from coming back. At 90, you are faced with a long long grind of dailies to unlock factions and gear. I waited before coming back and I'm glad I did as finding out about that saved me $40 plus whatever time I would have bought.

I played the game in "bursts" of a month or two at a time when I did. I had a bad habit of playing in almost all of my free time while subbed to feel like I was getting my money's worth. That lead to burn out and taking breaks from the game. Finding out MoP was a long grind as a way of gating content turned me off from it.

If I try a monthly sub MMO again it will most likely be Rift. For now I'm trying The Old Republic since its f2p. There are some heavy restrictions, but since I'm not paying anything I can just log in whenever and not feel like I'm losing progress.
-Mounts are just cosmetic stuff. Some look nice, but most will be just another +1 for your achievements and statistics, and nothing else. You'll never summon them. Ask yourself whether you really need them. :)

-Old quests / dailies / raids / whatever are best done with an end-game character. This makes doing dailies not a time-wasting activity at all (you'll be spending a minute or two per daily quest). For example, relative to The Scale of the Sands faction and the Hyjal Summit raid, you need only 3 runs to get from Revered to Exalted as each run now gives you ~12,xxx reputation, and the raid can be soloed blindly by a level 90 character.

-Argent Tournament pets and mounts: All pets are account-bound meaning you'll have them across all your characters. Most mounts are account-bound (except faction-mounts which are faction-bound). Which means that you need to get them only on a single character. Additionally, you can buy the pets from the auction house to save up the Champion Seals for the mounts.

-I'm pretty sure I've seen heirloom items that do not require reputation sold by a few vendors. Why not use those instead, since once you hit a high enough level, you'll be needing to replace them anyways?

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I'm almost exalted with all factions in Mists of Pandaria, and although there are many daily quests, you don't have to do them all. Just keep doing a few different factions each day, you won't get bored as now each faction has like 15-25 of them totally, randomized each day.

(previously, you were given the same dailies every single day, which sucked, and yes, I totally agree with you that it gets boring after a while. I too am not a Champion with the Argent Tournament because the dailies are boring.)

Also, once you hit Revered with a MoP faction, you can purchase an item that enables you to get 100% bonus reputation, and this item is account-bound, meaning all characters benefit from it.

Just focus on what is fun for you, and visit less-fun areas and quests every now and then when you feel up to it.
Post edited December 11, 2012 by Elenarie
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Elenarie: Just focus on what is fun for you, and visit less-fun areas and quests every now and then when you feel up to it.
or not at all :)
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amok: or not at all :)
That works too!

Whenever I play WoW, I try to fight my completionist feat, and most of the times it works, as I always find something to do (than to grind reputation with a certain faction).

The last two months (taking a break now, cancelled the sub as I don't have time), relative to the old content, I became Exalted with several factions (from TBC and WotLK) and completed all quests in Cataclysm, some raids in Cataclysm, and all pre-level-90 quests and content in Mists of Pandaria.

When I hit 90, I started doing dailies, improving my fishing and cooking skills, improving archaeology, herbalism and mining, participating in end-game raids and battlegrounds... and when I was bored, I went back to do an old raid or dungeon for reputation, or hunt an achievement or two.

Keep switching between activities, play to have fun, don't play just to satisfy your completionist need. :)
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dirtyharry50: There is actually a lot of fun stuff ahead for me in WoW if I stick with it. So what's the problem?
Stick to the fun you have, and do old dailies like once or twice per week, and you won't get bored. :)

EDIT: As a further suggestion, do two days of Argent Tournament this week, then two days of Kalu'ak, then two days of Ashtongue Deathsworn, then two days of Shattari Skyguards, and so on... keep switching factions! You shouldn't get bored that way.

By the way, get to 90. THERE IS SO MUCH that you can see in Pandaria. Compared to TBC and WotLK, it has like more stuff to see than both of those games combined (talking about the environment).

... AND STAY AWAY FROM KRASARANG WILDS! That damn place is a death trap now with 5.1 if you're on a PvP server. :D
Post edited December 11, 2012 by Elenarie
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dirtyharry50: Grinding. Grinding dailies for another two months to get the rest of the heirloom gear IF I log in every single day. By the that point, the other toon (the Druid who is 87) will hit Crusader too and between the both of them can in an hour's time each day over more MONTHS clean up and get all the cool Argent Tournament pets and mounts. The pets are pretty easy to do but the mounts cost a lot of time. I'm not sure they are ever happening. I'm not sure how much more is happening period because I am tired of logging in and feeling compelled to grind the boring dailies after which I no longer feel like playing WoW and log.
You don't *need* Crusader on more than one character (per faction). Once you have that, you can easily get 14 Champion's Seals per day in a fairly short amount of time; it takes me about 20 minutes on my level 90 mage. (You can get another 3 by doing heroic Trial of the Champion, but IMO, the jousting part makes it very hard to solo, so I wouldn't bother unless you have someone to run it with.)

If you're grabbing heirlooms for another character, only take those that provides an XP boost; you'll be more than powerful enough to level (especially combined with the heirlooms you can purchase for simple gold from a guild vendor). This requires 120 Seals in total, which equates to just over a week of farming them. You can also get these with Justice Points or Darkmoon Faire tickets, but IMO, it's far easier to just stick to Seals, since you need a lot of Justice Points per day to save up for even one of them.

If you're a collector and want all of the mounts and pets, of course, you need far more Seals - 1265 to be exact. That will indeed take a long time - at 14 seals per day, you're looking at 3 months of dailies. However, if you're willing to sacrifice some gold, you can save 240 of those by buying the pets on the auction house, which brings you down to 73.2 days (of course you need them to actually be *put up* on your local auction house, which might ruin that plan).

Here, a secondary character to do quests can certainly help, but you have to factor in that you will need to put in a lot of effort before you get any seals, and even when you start getting them, it will take a while before you reach full efficiency of 14 Seals per day. Unless you are already well on your way through this process, it's probably not worth the effort, and you'll be better off spending a few more days with the one character you have now.
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Elenarie: -I'm pretty sure I've seen heirloom items that do not require reputation sold by a few vendors. Why not use those instead, since once you hit a high enough level, you'll be needing to replace them anyways?
The heirlooms from Argent Tournament are different from the Guild Vendor heirlooms; they only last to level 80, but you still get a very lovely 20% XP boost from the shoulders and chestpieces (and it stacks with the guild vendor heirlooms for up to 45% bonus, assuming you add the helm, pants and cloak, and 50% if you also have a Dread Pirate Ring). As I mentioned above, these particular heirlooms can also be obtained in other ways, but unless you pull in about 500 Justice Points per day, it's faster to go through Argent Tournament.
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Pidgeot: but unless you pull in about 500 Justice Points per day, it's faster to go through Argent Tournament.
500 JP? Very easy. You would need 700 HP, meaning two good runs of AV will do the trick. Vendor in Old Town (SW) sells 250 JP for 350 HP.

Blizzard mentioned that they are figuring out a way to make JPs more valuable. Because nowadays, apart from getting a few mounts, some heirlooms and ilvl 450 gear (which you really don't need since you'll be doing HCs with ilvl 463 by the time that gear is available for purchase), there's nothing else useful that you can do with them.
Post edited December 11, 2012 by Elenarie
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Elenarie: Blizzard mentioned that they are figuring out a way to make JPs more valuable. Because nowadays, apart from getting a few mounts, some heirlooms and ilvl 450 gear (which you really don't need since you'll be doing HCs with ilvl 463 by the time that gear is available for purchase), there's nothing else useful that you can do with them.
They added gear upgrading in the most recent patch, you can use justice points to upgrade 463 or lower items by a further 8 item levels, at 1500 I think per item.
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Pidgeot: but unless you pull in about 500 Justice Points per day, it's faster to go through Argent Tournament.
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Elenarie: 500 JP? Very easy. You would need 700 HP, meaning two good runs of AV will do the trick. Vendor in Old Town (SW) sells 250 JP for 350 HP.
That only works if you do PvP. I don't. ;) For PvE content, JP isn't that quick to come by.

Even so - at least for a level 90 character - you may still prefer to save your JP, considering the new gear upgrade system in 5.1. If that's the case, Seals are your best bet (unless Darkmoon Faire is in town and you have a bunch of tickets you aren't going to use).

You also have to factor in the time you spend doing this: if an AV run takes say, 10 minutes, then it's going to take you about equally long to get either 500 JP or 14 Seals (and that's assuming you always get enough HP from those two runs). Sure, you can just run AV a bunch of times and get all the JP you need in a day or two, but maybe you'd rather spend time on something else, like instances or levelling. In that case, I would prefer to break it up, and reducing it to 20 minutes of dailies once per day works perfectly for me (but that's just my opinion).
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Pidgeot: You don't *need* Crusader on more than one character (per faction). Once you have that, you can easily get 14 Champion's Seals per day in a fairly short amount of time; it takes me about 20 minutes on my level 90 mage. (You can get another 3 by doing heroic Trial of the Champion, but IMO, the jousting part makes it very hard to solo, so I wouldn't bother unless you have someone to run it with.)
How do you get 14 per day? I must be missing something. I get 3 from the Sunreavers dailies, 4 from the guys in the corner of the Argent building who also have the writs for faction, and now that I hit Crusader with my Paladin, I get I think it is 2 more from the Argent folks in the same building, the ones who are next to the female vendor with the heirlooms I just gained access to buy from. So totals 9 so far.

Apparently, I am managing to miss a full 5 more seals per day somehow which is a lot.

The 87 Druid is still working on faction with a long way to go. He needs to finish Tauren (he does cooking and fishing dailies in TB to help with this), Forsaken - he is deliberately not doing the final quest for them although he could so he can keep doing those dailies for about 1k a day. He just got Sen'Jin exalted so he now spend his 4 daily writs for 1k faction probably on the Tauren who are nearest to exalted so he can stop bothering with the cooking/fishing quests in TB which is a pain in the neck to travel too considering that I'd otherwise just leave him parked at the Argent Tournament until he has fulfilled his mission there. He is exalted with Org. He is only honored with Silvermoon. Currently he can do Sunreavers and the guys in the corner of the Argent building for a total of seven seals a day if I made no further effort regarding faction and crusader with him. It would be much less painful if I gave up on advancing him and just took the seals I can get daily and good enough. Maybe I should do that and spare myself.

I've been something of a collector of pets and the Druid has enough seals now to buy two of the five and is able to do that. I don't care so much about mounts. When all else is done I may just decide, enough is enough and skip them or perhaps at some later date selectively work on a few I might actually use. I would like the Paladin specific one for my Paladin. That's one hundred seals I think on the vendor he can access. So I guess he could do that after the heirlooms were gained.
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Goatbrush: They added gear upgrading in the most recent patch, you can use justice points to upgrade 463 or lower items by a further 8 item levels, at 1500 I think per item.
Oh, yea, forgot about that. Kind of expensive, especially for VP gear since you'll be upgrading only a single item per week, but it is still better than nothing.

Being upgrade an end-game Normal quality item to a quality of an end-game HC item is always nice. :)
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dirtyharry50: How do you get 14 per day? I must be missing something. I get 3 from the Sunreavers dailies, 4 from the guys in the corner of the Argent building who also have the writs for faction, and now that I hit Crusader with my Paladin, I get I think it is 2 more from the Argent folks in the same building, the ones who are next to the female vendor with the heirlooms I just gained access to buy from. So totals 9 so far.

Apparently, I am managing to miss a full 5 more seals per day somehow which is a lot.
It's been a while but I think the guys who give you faction writs also offer a bag with gold in? those bags should each contain an additional seal if you choose them instead of the faction rep.
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dirtyharry50: I've been something of a collector of pets and the Druid has enough seals now to buy two of the five and is able to do that. I don't care so much about mounts.
Then buy them through the AH. Each daily at 90 gives you 20 gold, and you need 1k-1.5k per pet (the price on Eonar EU), so you'll be doing current and way more interesting content and be saving for the pets.

I think the main reason why you're not being effective is because you're playing with multiple chars and that just takes a lot more time.

I play with a single one, Elenna, and it never feels like work or bores me to death (even though I take a break every now and then).