No worries, I wrote an essay up there! Thanks for your input - I'm getting the feeling that it's not exactly going to get any better in the later installments.


That is spot on!
I suppose my complaint with the game is that it obviously bases itself on the player using logic to solve the problems and advance the stories, but then it breaks its own rules. It feels like when your opponents cheats in multiplayer games to gain advantages that they shouldn't really have. If the game has to break its own rules to present a challenge to the player, then the game really isn't all that good.

That's another one of my problems with the game. I thought I would have to conduct an actual investigation, collect actual evidence, and present it properly in court. I thought (and really liked the idea) that I would be able to lose if I didn't investigate properly or didn't utilize my collected evidence properly. But you really can't lose in Phoenix Wright. Granted, you can run out of exclamation marks, which is a hassle since you then have to sit through everything that has happened since your last save, and there is no way to skip or speed up text (except if you've read it before), which really drove me absolutely crazy.


Yeah, like I said, if a game bases itself on the player using logic to solve it, then goes and breaks its own fundamental rule, then it really isn't a very good game.

OK actually I now read it this time. And, well, it's been a long time since I played these games so I wouldn't know how to address your very specific points (again!). I WILL say that I myself indeed got annoyed by the fact that witnesses and obvious suspects were allowed to perjure themselves multiple times on the stand without being dismissed immediately the first time they're caught lying or are ever deemed suspicious until you're allowed to put out your winning hand, so to speak, on the table. And yeah the Judge is such a doofus. I still managed to enjoy the games though seeing that they're intentionally over-the-top, with lots of weird supernatural elements and ridiculous and often funny characters. That's all I know

Did we not have a user named Phoenix Wright and has his avatar? Whatever happend to him?

I think you are approaching this series from the wrong direction. At its heart, an AA game is a visual novel. It isn't meant to provide challenging puzzles or even be completely logical. Ultimately, it isn't finding the solution that makes the game fun, it's watching Phoenix (Apollo, Edgy) get there.

It's hard to tell how much of this is a problem with the game and how much is a problem with overlocalization. Clearly the translation team took a lot of liberties with the setting, to the point that they effectively wrote themselves into a corner in the later games and couldn't backpedal, and it's not hard to imagine that they also took liberties with the translation itself.

As for plot holes and logical leaps, it's very hard to write a good murder mystery, especially one for intelligent people - it is akin to planning a perfect crime. And there are many murder mysteries that are poorly written (at least in terms of logic) but incredibly popular, such as the BBC Sherlock series. My take is that the general public needs a mystery that they can follow along with easily, and not something that they have to think about very deeply in order to figure out. So it is written at a level that would be considered "entertaining".

Ohh.. I LOVE this licence.. I have played the first 4 on NDS, yet to play Miles Edgeworth. Curently owning 1st, 4th and Miles.

I find them very funny and entertaining, a great cast of likeable characters and cases.. Mostly clever writing and logical thinking to find the how and why. I see them as a really well thought visual novel & point & click blend, outstanding titles.

Really? My impression is quite the opposite, but I'm starting to wonder if I might be a bit hard on the game. After all, I've played plenty of adventure games where the solution hasn't made sense, or where I've found a solution to the problem that the game won't accept, and I still really enjoy those titles anyway.

I think I'm leaning towards giving the games the benefit of the doubt. Now that I know what to expect from the gameplay I imagine that I'll have an easier time enjoying the game for what it is.


Anyway, has anyone played Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney?

I love the Phoenix Wright games... and how the complete story branches out over the 3 games.
I just wish it were possible to get them here without resorting to importing them! (and I wish I had a 3DSXL to play them on... anyone feeling gifty?? :P)

Not so keen on the idea of Prof Layton vs Phoenix game... but eh... I'd probably play it if given 1/2 the chance to