I'm talking about the mouse controlled driving. What you're talking about has more to do with Borderlands being an unabashed coop game with shoved-in singleplayer than the controls.

Nope, I am actually talking about controls, as I matter of fact I even prefer freelook when driving vehicles. Not to mention you still get to control the turret when there's only 3 players and you're alone... And I don't know if it was Halo, but I do believe controlling a tank that had main cannon which could be rotated 360 degrees, but mouse controls pretty much prevented it from doing so (and of course vehicles turning in the direction of the canon was bloody annoying)

I *hate* mouse based driving. I want to use the mouse to look around. The same with Skyrims riding. Every time I wanna look at some beautiful scenery, my horse steers of the cliff...

It's ten times smoother and more accurate than WASD driving though, which is important in games with fast movement. You can have WASD look around digitally.

Not in Borderlands or Skyrim ....

I'm speaking of possibility, not of particular games.

really... so the Czech are a race now? i wonder how the Germans have been taking all the WWII shooters over the last 2 decades. why, they must be beyond mentally scarred by now.

Red Orchestra is quite nice, but it still plays and feels like a game. Killing Floor is a zombie shooter. It's fun, but there's nothing realistic about it.

Infiltration feels really special for me, because Infiltration has realistic collision detection between your weapon and the environment. If you have a large sniper rifle or M249 in your hands it is very difficult to move indoors because you will hit walls, door frames and other objects with the long barrel in front of you. This also makes rounding corners more realistic. Pistols or SMGs really give you a much better chance in tight spots.

The collision detection also means that you can use any environmental object as support for your weapon. You can lean against walls or support your gun on window sills to steady them and compensate for recoil. You can also turn and aim more quickly with short and light weapons, because weapon mass and inertia are realistically modeled.

Infiltration really simulates the weapons. At least for the SIG assault rifle I can confirm that the handling is as close to the real thing as you can get on a computer. It sounds like the real thing, has about the same recoil and It even drags slightly to the right under full auto fire, just like the real thing.

Well yeah, that is true, if it was toggle of some sorts, it would sure come in handy in some games (because ... well, buttons on keyboard only have 2 states)

Pretty much anything and everything about System Shock 1. It may not be underrated so much as overlooked.

Different ammo types, I want to say fire rates too if memory serves, Metroid-esque level design, audio logs, SHODAN, "vita chambers", being the first "smart FPS" all in 1994

That HUD though, it's intense to say the least

It is true that Killing Floor does a fantastic job of making the guns feel good to fire. They still don't sound completely right, though... not powerful enough. btw, can you play infultration with bots?

Yes, you can play against bots. They're fun for a few rounds, but they don't really cooperate, so you miss out on the awesome team tactics the game used to have with many human players back in the day.

That's ok. It'll at least give me a taste of the mod, and give me a chance to use the weapons. I doubt that I'd be able to become a dedicated part of the community (or whatever there is of it) anyway.

I think Wolf 3D aged fine. Check out some of the mods for it.

http://www.wolfenstein3d.co.uk/news.htm