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What the...? Does this make any sense at all? AT ALL?
This will always happen when people refuse to properly integrate into the culture of a country. It baffles me that people want to move somewhere yet want to live as though they are in their home country. This has been a very recent thing if you ask me and the main root of the problem is political correctness. Authorities are now too scared to get involved in 'communities' as they might be hounded as racists. If you are going to move somewhere then move because you want to live in that country. Don't move for purely economic reasons but actually deeply hate everything about the place, thats no way to live if you ask me.
As for those that don't even speak the language... thats just plain insulting if you ask me. "I will live next door to you, I will earn money like you do but like hell do I want to talk to you" Eugh. I wont even go on holiday unless I have a phrase book and can say please and thank you.
Post edited November 03, 2009 by Delixe
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Delixe: This will always happen when people refuse to properly integrate into the culture of a country. It baffles me that people want to move somewhere yet want to live as though they are in their home country. This has been a very recent thing if you ask me and the main root of the problem is political correctness. Authorities are now too scared to get involved in 'communities' as they might be hounded as racists. If you are going to move somewhere then move because you want to live in that country. Don't move for purely economic reasons but actually deeply hate everything about the place, thats no way to live if you ask me.
As for those that don't even speak the language... thats just plain insulting if you ask me. "I will live next door to you, I will earn money like you do but like hell do I want to talk to you" Eugh. I wont even go on holiday unless I have a phrase book and can say please and thank you.

Not that it really compares with this case in the slightest, but it's not always quite so black and white.
Even native people of a country rarely agree with all aspects of it, and many people who move to a country will naturally not want to let go of all the aspects of their old culture, and won't want to adopt every aspect of the culture they move to.
For example, I'm a brit living in japan. I choose to live here because, on the whole, it's a great place. But there are definitely some aspects of japanese society I don't like, some i don't want to accept, some I complain about, and some I want to change.
Now of course, it's my choice to live here, any i have to respect the traditions and cultures of the place.. but i don't think that means I should be gagged from complaining. I don't think it should be a "accept everything or get the hell out" situation.
(for example, japanese police can hold you without charge indefinitely, don't record interviews, are rumored to be rather "strong" in getting a confession, don't have to give you a lawyer or translator, tend to get convictions purely on grounds of confessions, have a tendency to pick on foreigners. Plus the prosecutors all play golf with the judges. They don't have a jury system. They have a 99.x% conviction rate. etc...
as such, westerners living in japan tend to be critical of the japanese police/legal system, and a very common response is "if you don't like it go home.". maybe valid, but a lot of people feel "if you don't like it, try to improve it".
Unfortunately, who is to judge what is an improvement. Many of us would feel that getting jury systems and legal rights in places like japan (or iran, saudi arabia, burma, etc..) was a fair thing to work for... but then again, many people from other cultures might feel that getting sharia law, or whatever their values are improved in the country they move to is improving that country.
Ahem, anyway. This guy was clearly an asshole, and maybe it doesn't really compare. But as someone who has now experienced living in a different culture, i feel that it can be hard for people who haven't done it to understand the feeling.
(as for language, I've been trying to learn japanese... but it does take a long time to learn a language... so there are probably lots of japanese saying "jeez. all another darn foreigner who's come here but hasn't even bothered to learn the language" ;-) )
PS/ On a lighter note, there are quite a few british movies that deal with the generational problems of imigrants. Bend it like Beckham, Bhaji on the Beach, East is East. etc...
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soulgrindr: Now of course, it's my choice to live here, any i have to respect the traditions and cultures of the place.. but i don't think that means I should be gagged from complaining. I don't think it should be a "accept everything or get the hell out" situation.

Valid point, but as you said, it's not so black and white.
Firstly you mentioned a key word, respect. The same sort of people that commit these acts have no respect. In Australia, we have a little problem with some extremist Arab Muslims. They have no respect, but expect Australian culture to bend to their whim. Not all, mind you.
There was a case some years ago of a group of thugs gang raping a woman (although others came forward), they brutalised her. Why? Because she dressed like a slut. In their eyes, mind you. I'm sorry if she wasn't so covered up that you can only see her eyes. GTFO.
Furthermore, I can't remember if this actually got the go ahead. But there was talk about allowing women to get their passport photos taken with a burqa on. What?! How the bloody hell are you even supposed to know that the person holding the passport is the person in question?
And yes, complain. That's the beauty of not being under a (completely) totalitarian government. Atleast from my point of view, I didn't mean to come across as "completely abandon your culture or GTFO".
The cultural reasons for killing are as valid as "music/movies/games/religion made me do it".
I was born in Portugal, I was raised with those traditions. I've been living in Australia for the vast majority of my life. This is my home, this is the country I love, this is the culture I adopted.
Yeah, I'll bitch and complain. It wouldn't matter what country I lived in, to be honest. Especially when it comes to politics and religion.
Not that I'm trying to preach intolerance, but honestly, the people that do this are a stain on their religion and culture. If they insist on their current attitudes, then yes, leave. If you have a valid reason (police brutality, whatever) make your voice heard. Expecting to change a country to suit you? Pfft.
[/rant]
I stayed in Australia for 6 years and currently residing in my home country in Malaysia for the past two years (and of course the years prior to my studies in Australia )
I am still having problems blending / adapting Malaysian culture.
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Shalgroth: [
Honestly, if you don't like the country you live in, or don't want to adopt its customs. GTFO. Seriously. Go.

Just a little side step to the lighter side: The native Americans probably though exactly like that...
It just makes my jaws drop when people say you have to embrace the culture of nation you are currently living. You have to uphold the laws of said nation, but not culture. Cultural assimilation will happen in time and probably will require generation or two.
In my mind, the only thing that could speed up the assimilation process is to not allow immigrants set up little communities.
But then again, where would immigrant feel welcome or safe if not in company of their own kind. That is straight cause of racism. "They took our job!" etc.
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Shalgroth: Firstly you mentioned a key word, respect. The same sort of people that commit these acts have no respect. In Australia, we have a little problem with some extremist Arab Muslims. They have no respect, but expect Australian culture to bend to their whim. Not all, mind you.
Especially those bastards from The Chaser's War On Everything...
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Shalgroth: The cultural reasons for killing are as valid as "music/movies/games/religion made me do it".
You mean 100% invalid on the grounds that they're utterly fabricated hysterical bullshit used by the guilty to try and get off with a lighter sentence and, in the exceptionally rare cases where it is the genuine catalyst, because the murderer in question was a sleeper nutjob just awaiting the trigger stimulus which could have just as easily been someone smiling at him?
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Shalgroth: I was born in Portugal, I was raised with those traditions. I've been living in Australia for the vast majority of my life. This is my home, this is the country I love, this is the culture I adopted.
Yeah, I'll bitch and complain. It wouldn't matter what country I lived in, to be honest. Especially when it comes to politics and religion.
It'd be thoroughly unAustralian to do otherwise, we learned that from England
Post edited November 04, 2009 by Aliasalpha
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Themock: Just a little side step to the lighter side: The native Americans probably though exactly like that...

No doubt the native Australians felt the same way. But those were times of domination.. Although, the world hasn't changed much to be honest.
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Themock: You have to uphold the laws of said nation, but not culture. Cultural assimilation will happen in time and probably will require generation or two.
In my mind, the only thing that could speed up the assimilation process is to not allow immigrants set up little communities.

Well, the Australia I know, is very much multicultural, so it's culture can be a mix and match (though it does have a core culture). That said, there is a lot of tolerance, rather, acceptance of different cultures. But I'm not going to make excuses for dickheads who kill for such stupid reasons.
You did mention assimilation, yes, this will happen. What these extremists (and they do preach hatred) want isn't assimilation, it is infact, domination.
So yes, maybe I sounded racist, but like I said, there's no excuse for such heinous behaviour and I truly do not care what god you worship, if at all.
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Aliasalpha: You mean 100% invalid on the grounds that they're utterly fabricated hysterical bullshit used by the guilty to try and get off with a lighter sentence and, in the exceptionally rare cases where it is the genuine catalyst, because the murderer in question was a sleeper nutjob just awaiting the trigger stimulus which could have just as easily been someone smiling at him?

Couldn't have said it better.
You guys make a bunch of great points in the last few posts, here, and I think you've pretty much hit on the crux of it. The notion isn't that anybody who doesn't conform 100% to the land they're living in is some kind of troublemaker and should be forcibly deported from the country. It's not a question of "You fall into line 100% or we remove you." But there -will- be bleedover. Ideas will spread both ways. It's inevitable.
People sometimes forget that what made America (As an example) what it is was the whole influx of people from other countries, contributing to form a very mixed culture.
At the same time, though, other people use this as an excuse. They feel that "Oh, since the U.S. is so culturally diverse, anyway, then we can just plop ourselves down wherever we feel like and the U.S. should accommodate us like we're their guests." It does not work that way. It never did. Those people who came over here on boats did bring their own traditions and such with them, yes. They did form their own small communities within the larger communities they lived in, yes, but at the same time, they also made an effort to learn the traditions of the new place they had moved to, to learn the language of the place they had moved to, and to make an effort to become an American (whatever that entailed.)
It was a two-way street. We made room for them, and they made room in their hearts for us. That is how it has always been, that is how it should always be.