It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
avatar
Gundato: No, a Scientific Theory is, to oversimplify, "Probably right". It is usually based on empirical evidence (and correlation does not imply causation, but it sure does help :p) as well as a crapton of logical/mathematical relationships (those help a lot more), but it is not a fact. It is still refutable. It is just a way to explain. A "theory" if you will :p
avatar
DarrkPhoenix: Speaking as a scientist, this is on the right track, but doesn't fully give scientific theories their due. A scientific theory is a hypothesis that has survived numerous challenges to its predictive value, providing not only an explanation that fits the available evidence, but which has also managed to make accurate predictions regarding phenomenon the theory applies to. This doesn't mean it's fully accurate, it just means it's a highly accurate model (as an instructor of mine was fond of saying, "All models are wrong... but some are useful"). Later hypotheses (which become theories) may prove more accurate and thus supplant the original theory (as Relativity proved more accurate than Newtonian mechanics), although even in such cases the original theory still usually remains a useful predictive tool as long as the constraints within which it is accurate are kept in mind.

Fully agree. Like I said, it was an oversimplification :p
But that still doesn't make it a fact, which is something that I still feel needs to be emphasized. Far too many people don't understand the scientific method and just instantly believe what they are told. People complain when others are indoctrinated and/or brainwashed by religion, but what about science?
Nah, the best thing that can be done is to inform people, then let them decide. Some would argue that teaching Creationism in school is doing that. I kind of don't. But I also still feel that it is the responsibility of the schools that teach evolution to emphasize that it is only a scientific theory (albeit, one with a lot of support). Especially because most of the other stuff you learn in school are the things like Newtonian physics and basic chemistry. You know, the stuff which, while not 100% correct in the light of recent findings, are still more than enough for anything the average person will do :p
avatar
Gundato: Nah, the best thing that can be done is to inform people, then let them decide. Some would argue that teaching Creationism in school is doing that. I kind of don't.

Yes but the absolute crux of the debate is that creationism is NOT a science and cannot be without some verifiable process and therefore CANNOT be included in a discussion or class of science.
If the creationists want it even considered as a science, there is one simple starting point. Prove the existance of god. Once god is known to exist in as real a manner as the universe, it can be studied with the same scientific fervour as reality is currently studied
I'm 34 and have been educated on Christian schools only.
On all schools I've been thought evolution theory during biology classes and the creation of live according to the bible during theology lessons.
Theology lessons in which all major religions were openly and honestly discussed without a colored look and without judging any of them.
There were even several hours spend on the similarities between the Jewish religion, Christianity and Islam (mentioned chronologically.
Discussions about the creation of live were held during theology lessons.
I've always felt that the way the schools I visited dealt with this was the correct way.
Keep evolution away from theology and theology out of the biology class.
To me the evolution theory makes sense as to the way life forms change over a long period of time.
I've never heared creationists/IDers make 1 good argument for their 'theory'.
They mention things like dinosaurs became extinct 3000 years ago, etc.
No explanation as to why dinosaurs aren't mentioned in the bible.
avatar
HertogJan: ...

Very true, there would be more people of faith if there were dinosaurs in Bible. 'cause dinosaurs are awesome.
avatar
HertogJan: ...
avatar
Fenixp: Very true, there would be more people of faith if there were dinosaurs in Bible. 'cause dinosaurs are awesome.

If Jonah had been swallowed by a T-Rex, the moral of that story would have been markedly different...
avatar
Gundato: Nah, the best thing that can be done is to inform people, then let them decide. Some would argue that teaching Creationism in school is doing that. I kind of don't. But I also still feel that it is the responsibility of the schools that teach evolution to emphasize that it is only a scientific theory (albeit, one with a lot of support).

The problem with the perspective that it should be emphasized that it is a theory is that that emphasis is applied asymmetrically. The theory of evolution (in a general sense) pretty much has the same scientific standing as the theory of gravity (or any other incredibly well-established theory), yet people seem to only want to emphasize evolution as a theory while giving no such emphasis to the status of many other theories. I'm all for teaching kids just what hypotheses and theories actually are, along with the entire epistemic basis for the scientific process in general, but the calls to emphasize that evolution and evolution alone is "just" a theory are nothing more than a blatant attempt to deceive.
avatar
Fenixp: Very true, there would be more people of faith if there were dinosaurs in Bible. 'cause dinosaurs are awesome.

They wait to be officially included in the newest version of Bible :P
avatar
Lobsang1979: If Jonah had been swallowed by a T-Rex, the moral of that story would have been markedly different...

Ya had to put that in my head . . .=D
I tried to resist . . . sorry . . .=)
Attachments:
Post edited April 08, 2010 by Stuff
I found another cartoon that sums up the evolutionary education debate a bit better than the first
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NI__468yW0
How about a Darwin game that appears to be developed by a Catholic school.
I especially enjoyed saving the critters . . .=)
avatar
HertogJan: No explanation as to why dinosaurs aren't mentioned in the bible.

Look at the behemoth, which I made along with you and which feeds on grass like an ox. What strength he has in his loins, what power in the muscles of his belly! His tail sways like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are close-knit. His bones are tubes of bronze, his limbs like rods of iron. He ranks first among the works of God, yet his Maker can approach him with his sword. The hills bring him their produce, and all the wild animals play nearby. Under the lotus plants he lies, hidden among the reeds in the marsh. The lotuses conceal him in their shadow; the poplars by the stream surround him. When the river rages, he is not alarmed; he is secure, though the Jordan should surge against his mouth. Can anyone capture him by the eyes, or trap him and pierce his nose? Job 40:15-24
avatar
Gundato: Nah, the best thing that can be done is to inform people, then let them decide. Some would argue that teaching Creationism in school is doing that. I kind of don't. But I also still feel that it is the responsibility of the schools that teach evolution to emphasize that it is only a scientific theory (albeit, one with a lot of support).
avatar
DarrkPhoenix: The problem with the perspective that it should be emphasized that it is a theory is that that emphasis is applied asymmetrically. The theory of evolution (in a general sense) pretty much has the same scientific standing as the theory of gravity (or any other incredibly well-established theory), yet people seem to only want to emphasize evolution as a theory while giving no such emphasis to the status of many other theories. I'm all for teaching kids just what hypotheses and theories actually are, along with the entire epistemic basis for the scientific process in general, but the calls to emphasize that evolution and evolution alone is "just" a theory are nothing more than a blatant attempt to deceive.

Where did I say that we shouldn't explain what theories are? I just clarified that, if we are teaching evolution, we shouldn't teach it as fact.
avatar
Gundato: Where did I say that we shouldn't explain what theories are? I just clarified that, if we are teaching evolution, we shouldn't teach it as fact.

DP's point is if you go that route with evolution, then you need to also go that route with the theory of gravitation, quantum theory, etc.
avatar
Gundato: Where did I say that we shouldn't explain what theories are? I just clarified that, if we are teaching evolution, we shouldn't teach it as fact.
avatar
Coelocanth: DP's point is if you go that route with evolution, then you need to also go that route with the theory of gravitation, quantum theory, etc.

And I fully agree. So what is the problem?
I guess my "theory" of evolution and bacon cheeseburgers has been overlooked :(