But that's just the thing - I wanted titles, solid examples of how and where.
Jaime made a reasonable counterargument, but even ignoring that - isn't "some fighting games depict women in questionable ways" a lot different from "video games (...)" ?

I have yet to encounter a single game that would fit this description. As far as I know - all the examples aside from Duke were console games. Where can I find PC games that illustrate these outrageous claims ? You know - something I've played or can play where I can nod my head and say "Indeed - this is a problem endemic to most if not all of computer games" ?
"Strong characters" can mean "well fleshed-out characters" and I've seen plenty of them throughout genres and titles.

I don't care at all what celebrities think about social/political issues (and I avoid all the standard places that try and gossip about what they do/think/feel). Once they see fit to cram it down my throat via inappropriate public events or through other unrelated media then I usually stop watching/endorsing their stuff. I'm able to come up with my own conclusions about things and I don't need them (mostly completely unqualified in the issues they are politicking for) telling me how to think or feel.

This is true for video games as well. Whoever makes the game is going to be biased one way or the other. If they feel the need to try and "win" people over to their view, then I will avoid their propaganda. I could care less if they agree with my beliefs or not. Attempting to tell others they are wrong in issues that have more than one side is not tolerated in my entertainment cabinet.

I'm not claiming that they should go all politically correct and never tell a story (this would be the opposite extreme).

Thing is, I do subscribe to the feminist idea that there's something like a male gaze in our culture. To go back to the Street Fighter 4 example, the freaks are all male. There's fat fighters, old fighters, green monsters, weird cyborgs... all male. The females are all beautiful and young. Seems like we don't accept women who aren't good looking. But that's not a video game issue, it's a cultural one. For some reason I find it more offensive when a Science Fiction TV show depicts a female resistance fighter, who has spent the last months in underground bunkers struggling to survive, heavily made-up with eyeshadow and mascara. It's like we can't even bear the sight of a woman without make-up.

Since a lot of problems arise in the promotional material is there some reason you'd like to exclude console games, as you seem to? Are you unable to look at said promotional materials just because you haven't played the game and make a value judgement? Or is this just some sideways argument of PC gaming being somehow superior?

I've already explained why playing the games is not always important. Did you not bother to watch the video I linked or did you simply think the examples of Mai Shiranui or the Soul Calibur V ads with featuring Ivy's tits (and only about a quarter of her face) weren't worth considering? Do you and I even have the same hobby? Because looking back, yeah, I can see tons of ads, game box art, etc., where this is all true, where the men get poses that convey personality and women get poses that convey their tits or asses (or recently both, with the new popularity of the impossibly twisted waist pose).

Again, I don't give a crap if someone wants to draw a sexy picture of their video game heroine and even put it in an ad. Neither do I disagree that video game men are often idealized. What I am pointing out is that the argument that men and women are not portrayed the same in video gaming and other media (in general) is actually true in this context: men often have much more character portrayed in art peripheral to the video game. I won't even go into the whole "battle fuck doll" trope as we can't even seem to get on the same page on this point and the it's actually much simpler than "battle fuck doll".
They're both often idealized (though you get a far bigger selection in the body choice for men, in most cases, Street Fighter is a great example of this), but they're not posed the same, in a poster or hand drawn art Zangief will be far more expressive, while Chun Li will look like she's checking herself out in a mirror that you cannot see. This is not always true, of course, but it is actually deeply skewed towards the female characters being made into pinups. Of course, in game, someone will have often written some sort of backstory, it might even be good, but you'll have no sense of said backstory just from the game or promotional items for females, pretty much ever, for males maybe, maybe not.
Video games are far more forgiving for males, still, you pretty much need to be in a post apocalyptic setting, preferably zombie based, to find a fat dude. E Honda is the only real exception of which I can think right now, surely there's 4 or 5 more but they're rare enough that none spring to mind.

Idealized women are a problem, even in movies, true, but we have far more freedom in video games and we don't use it, that actually speaks poorly of us.

Really don't see that.

Check out these official character artworks. They're all pin-ups in the way that they are all posing for us and showing off their fighting moves. I can't see a fundamental difference between the depictions of females and males.

Chun-Li - http://www.game-art-hq.com/chun-li-official-artworks/

You'll find her either showing off her moves or staring in a determined way into the distance. Makes sense, because her story is that she's searching for her father, who has been abducted by Shadaloo.

Zangief - http://www.game-art-hq.com/zangief-official-artworks/

Here, his fierceness is emphasized. Again, makes sense, because story-wise he's just a wild dude fighting bears for training.

Ken - http://www.game-art-hq.com/ken-masters-official-artworks/

Now this is what I call posing for an invisible mirror. Check out the Capcom Vs SNK renders. Story-wise, Ken's a womanizer and bon vivant, so that fits, too.

Juri - http://www.game-art-hq.com/juri-han-official-artworks/

Here's my Juri. She's evil.

Again, most video game characters come from some kind of hyper-reality and have exaggerated traits. (Makes sense in a way, when you consider the gameplay - a video game soldier doesn't kill half a dozen enemies, he kills hundreds, so he looks like a hyper-soldier.) Many men have hugely exaggerated muscles (gender trait), while likewise many women have hugely exaggerated breasts. Hyper-men and hyper-women.

The point I readily concede is that there is a much wider range of male types, but again, that's not a video game issue. Think about movie stars - most male ones are good looking, but we also get many guys like John Goodman or Steve Buscemi. That's not true for women.

It may sound like a "true Scotsman" argument on my part but there's more to this. Rather than being interested in the issue for its socio-philosophical implications or anything like that, I'm trying to find an answer to a (perhaps a very self-centered but quite relevant) question of "Is this an issue I am ever going to encounter as a gamer ?". If not - I can lament over the sexism as much as the next guy but at least it won't concern me in my leisure time, as I'm extremely fond of deep, complicated female characters - strong and weak alike, both innocent and broken, etc...

Oh, I'm sorry - I did watch the video. Though I consider the guy an agist (and sexist) asshole for using the term "teenage boys" as a derogatory term that is meant to evoke bigoted connotations.

I don't really watch ads, I shop online and prefer games with strong female leads.
Funnily enough - this immediately reminded me of GOG's shenanigens, so I rushed into the catalog to find the offending images... and they're not really there. They appear on announcements but not really on gamecards.
Clicking through, quite randomly, I have found quite a few counterexamples. Take a look:
http://static.gog.com/upload/images/2011/04/73e494ec91b4e660096e3f06032c7c4fce518919_bb_20.jpg
http://static.gog.com/upload/images/2009/06/da7ff32f347332e4e9dc7dd1903c252e455c8c0d_bb_20.jpg
http://static.gog.com/upload/images/2009/02/e674eda06a738171f7e9cabd595b78902705255d_bb_20.jpg
http://static.gog.com/upload/images/2008/11/27b144f57ded4fa8b6161c07005b460845a054e9_bb_20.jpg (I hope this one's not a guy...)

Also - take a look at this. Exposed yet semantic.
http://magnetica.ru/gallery/wp-content/uploads/disciples2elves_cover.jpg

Also - think what you will, but I do not feel offended by digital shots of virtual females, improbably shaped or otherwise. I do, in fact, find them aesthetically pleasing - if not as a digital representation of a female body (as I treat realism is one style among many, not the privileged one), perhaps as theoretical physical vessels for a character's mind. If a given screenshot or video doesn't give me much info about the game, though, and I'm not merely casually browsing but seeking information... I seek out other ones. I usually find them.

Isn't peripheral art... Peripheral ?

Also - this may be more of an exception than a rule but I can't help but be reminded of this trailer...

That's quiet good, but isn't that basically the exception that proves the rule? I mean, that wouldn't work at all if the notion to which I'm referring didn't exist, would it?
Well, I don't agree but I understand what you're saying. However, I was under the impression we were having a different discussion: namely that you were somehow attempting to try to have a reasoned argument against the premise of the video.

If you don't think you've seen this in the games you've played... well, I don't know which games you play, you're going to have to make yourself the qualified one to judge given the circumstances.

For my part, no, I don't think it's limited to consoles or even more predominant there. Whether it exists in the games you play or whether your strong female leads are actually just well dressed tropes in disguise or genuinely decent depictions I cannot say.
Imo, no, I mean it might be for some, but the majority of folks who play games are exposed to teasers, trailers, art, fan art, models (aka booth babes), and all manner of things in order to sell a game. This exposure will shape expectations and preconceptions about the game, some of which the devs and publishers will be well served to meet. So no, I think how characters are presented actually matters a lot, just like manuals for games used to matter deeply to our beloved games of yesteryear.
Well, that is a valid critic of his methods or even him, personally, I grant, it doesn't much address the argument, though.
Actually, I find that one to be a pretty good example of what I'm talking about, the only thing semantic is her clothing. I don't know much about that game, though, so I could be missing something. The others your posted weren't too bad. Yes, GOG is especially guilty of finding titty shots even when they weren't really a big part of promotional material for the game and featuring them front and center on their catalog launch. Again, I don't mind titty shots, even tasteless ones (taste is subjective, after all), if that's all you can tell me about the game, though, I fail to be intrigued. They may or may not say something about the character, usually not in my experience.

I guess we could go round and round with examples, but you seem to be more personally interested in the games you play, since, again, there's simply no way for me to know, I have nothing else I feel I can add other than you're your own best judge, if you think you're lacking somehow, you have access to the same resources I do.

The Juri shots are pretty much counter examples to the argument. They're fine. About half of the Chun Li art is not so good (FYI, I usually played Chun Li because I sucked and she was easier to cheese with than anyone besides maybe Blanka), when you compare them to Zangief's art they really come up lacking, that's the best example I can give with these. Obviously, a lot of these franchises have been around forever and there's tons of source material from which to draw.

I know I've been picking on fighting games, because it's, frankly, a lot easier to use someone like Ivy or the Tekken girls and show what I'm talking about. Additionally, they have large rosters of characters with stories.

Try this, look just at shots of Ivy, tell me whether she's good or bad. What about Taki (which is actually a bit easier)? Actually, here's the list of the original game http://soulcalibur.wikia.com/wiki/Soul_Calibur_%28game%29 , don't read the entries, just tell me which male characters that you can tell are evil vs. which are good.

Now tell me how many female you can tell for sure. Again, you already know, but just from the pics. You should come up with 2 obviously good females. The rest are ambiguous, because their art just doesn't say much about them.

Now I'm going to give you two extremely similar games (game play only), just look at the box art, see a difference:

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/3661/1676360-untitled.jpg
http://www.vgblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/28/X-Blades_PS3_Box_Front.jpg

What can you tell between the male and female lead?
Recheck the Enslaved pic, now this one:
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2010/10/majin102602.jpg

What is the relationship between the two pairs of characters (no I'm not trying to take away story opportunities)?

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2010/03/500x_readdead2.jpg
http://www.nextgn.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/WET-PlayStation-3-Box-Art.jpg

Actually I'm still trying to find a box art for a female as strong as John Marston there. It probably exists but I feel like I could find 5 men for every woman. That WET art isn't even that terrible, I still can't figure out what she's thinking (even though it's supposed to be "I'm gonna fucking kill you" just like Marston).

FWIW, this shit is slowly changing WHICH IS WHY I think this is a conversation worth having. We all need to reward the industry and let them know we actually want to see this. The new Lara Croft is a GOOD thing (oh man am I gonna take shit for that). If you ignore Other M, Metroid is actually pretty good. Femshep playing the same as Manshep (afaik) is awesome. Jade (of Beyond Good and Evil) is mostly really good, as well.

Hell, I'm not even bothered by Lollipop Chainsaw, that shit is supposed to be stupid, and frankly it's too dumb to be making any statement at all. No one in their right mind takes that any more seriously as a social statement than one might take soda pop seriously as health food.

For once my post was not a concise attempt at proving anything but merely a bundle of thoughts.
I just felt like linking to it.
Can you point to anything yourself ? Have you actually experienced this first-hand or were you merely moved by the video you've linked and convinced by the arguments presented within it ?
To clarify - I'm asking, not arguing. I'm trying to understand the issue better, not desperately prove some preconceived idea.
As Max Payne adequately put it - "nothing is a cliche when it's happening to you". I don't see games as blocks of code or characters as bundled tropes (Uhm... In the literary sense, not ontological one). My suspension of disbelief is incredibly resilient and unless something dramatically shakes the very foundations of the reality I'm in at a given moment, I am blind to conventions and cliches. I am Ulysses tied to the mast with my ears uncovered - I listen to the sirens' song from the safety of my computer chair.
Perhaps the moral of this story is that I am an incredibly naive person and as such - am willing to let a lot more things slide. Perhaps it is my imagination that embellishes every world I explore.
I know one thing - I prefer to judge people with an open mind. I'm strongly oppose bigotry against fictional characters. I you've heard a similar story - forget about it for the duration of this one. If you've met a similar person - withold your memories and let this one be herself and not a mere shadow.
It works in real life too. You could call me a cliched lanky, white, long-haired nerd... but I wouldn't like it, being constructed out of leftovers from your previous experiences.
I don't believe "originality" is the only virtue and goal in art. That's goddamn modernism, we're past that.

It's amazing, BTW, how strongly this irked me. "They're MY characters, damnit ! You stop insulting them THIS INSTANT !" ;P

That's a coherent reasoning that leads absolutely nowhere. Think about it - there are many ways games can be played but making them shallow showcases for erotic art is pointless. Masturbation is a spectator sport, it doesn't necessarily leave you with focus and dexterity needed for the multitude of gaming activities. On the other hand - there are plenty of external to gaming materials that work at arousing a lot better.
OK, so let's assume that you merely mean having "sexified" characters within the game... Are they supposed to be shallow ? Guess what - that doesn't work all too well. Once again - which genres ? Depending on the answer, you can probably quite easily figure out why empty shells would be pointless, no matter how sexy their looks. If they are going to be both attractive and have a mind of their own - problem fricken solved.
Ugh... IDK - post your thoughts on how sexy concept art seeps into the final product. Like I said - I want to understand it but I don't.

Sorry for stepping down into ad hominem territory but... you are EXTREMELY heterosexual. To elaborate on what Jaime said... First - a link:
http://www.livescience.com/17007-naked-people-competence-objectification.html

Secondly - my thoughts on your reactions: as soon as you notice a significant enough degree of nudity or anything suggestive, you seem to discard other factors and fixate on the female in question as... "an experiencer" rather than "agent". I'd almost be willing to bet this instinct would've been dulled A LOT if you were presented a picture of an attractive man in... less than casual attire. You'd be able to "see past".

The woman in the picture is looking right with a tired and worried look on her face. Whatever has agitated the cat (ocelot?) to her side is certainly not pleasing for her to see. As I'm glad you've noticed - her clothes ARE semantic. She appears to be druid or perhaps a shaman. Her connection with nature is underlined by her disregard for concealing clothing - she probably sees nothing wrong with the human body and doesn't think it is meant to be hidden in shame. She looks wearied, troubled. She's almost slumped over the pillar to her left, holding herself upright with a spear or a staff. She is likely contemplating what to do - she appears to be burdened by some responsibility. Perhaps she is not merely a spiritual but also a more general leader ? The markings on her body are of ritual nature and probably endow her or help her channel magical energy.
Does she really still look like a stereotypical bimbo ? A mere drawing meant merely or mainly for arousal ?
Let's assume the character isn't even in the game - doesn't the cover convey ideas like "nature", "strife", "leadership", etc. ? "Rise of the elves". Seems fitting.
If we conclude that it could've been done in a different way... we're suggesting that there is something inherently wrong with what the picture presents. But there isn't don't you think ?

I'm glad there's something we can both agree on ^^.

Bingo ! And that's partly why I disagreed with you before - I don't think anyone is dumb enough to go "Oooh, pretty... Let's buy this and hope there's more within ^^!".
Damn - it is like with people isn't it ? A glimmer of an earing or botomless cleavage CAN pique your interest... but if there isn't much more substance behind it, that pretty cover can go to hell.
But it doesn't hurt to have that "boxart" catch your eye, does it ;) ?

That's why I insisted on a "don't judge a book by its cover" kind of thing. You can have all the jiggling goodness you want - if a fighting game doesn't provide enough variety, a good enough balance, an interesting mix od playable characters, crisp controls and - in general - good mechanics... It's not much of a fighting game, is it ? In such a case, I'd rather ogle the characters on Rule34 than play something fundamentally broken just to enjoy the eye-candy.

Like I said - if you're willing to drop some names, I may give them a look. I was mostly trying to say that this CANNOT be as endemic as you claim.
Or perhaps I am simply oblivious and overlook the abundant examples...

Also - my favorite trailer of all time ;P.

Well, the first thing I noticed (I'm really not familiar with the Soul Calibur fighters) is that again the freaks and older characters appear to be all male. Apart from that, the big profile pictures of most of the women seem to be simple ingame graphics from a game called Broken Destiny, which of course are more generic than the elaborate Soul Calibur 5 artworks that most of the male characters got. So I don't think that's a fair comparison. Only Ivy has a SC 5 portrait, and that seems OK to me. Can't tell for sure if she's evil or good, but look at the Zangief artworks I posted earlier, and tell me he couldn't just as well be a villain. Judging Ivy by her portrait - the weapons she uses (dear god, the whip! who fights with something like that doesn't just want to eliminate enemies, she wants to hurt them - deep lying, suppressed anger?), her facial expression and her pose - she seems to be a serious minded, hard character with probably a dark past. TM. The pic really doesn't strike me as lacking in character. Edit: She also seems to be independent and proud, at least outwardly. The longer I look at the portrait, the more I get a "hiding a vulnerable core" vibe. Look at the eyes... are they beady? I actually really like the picture.

But yeah, the WET cover is... questionable. It's the old "women being portrayed with sex faces in inappropriate situations" routine. To continue the link overload, check this out (slightly NSFW?):

http://www.oneangrygirl.net/quiz1.htm

OK, a few further thoughts on the Juri and Ivy characters.

Juri's utterly beyond any moral constraints. She is really superhuman in the way that she isn't bound by emotions, leaving her free to pursue the one thing that gives her pleasure beyond all else... beating the crap out of other people, the stronger, the better. She's only working for Shadoloo and S.I.N. because it affords her many opportunities to do just that. She has no loyalty for her employer and is completely open about it. Sadistic, powerful and free, Juri is, in her way, a perfect being, while we are slaves to morality, emotions and our own frailty.

I've now also read Ivy's bio. Which was really exciting by the way, after looking at her portrait for so long. OK, so her foster parents and her real dad died because of the evil Sword, so she journeyed out to revenge them by destroying it. But alas, she got corrupted by the power of the Sword, since she needs that very power to reach her goal! And the kicker is, she is perfectly aware of that. Now back to the portrait. Look at her strapping on her claw glove in preparation for the fight. She seems grim and proud, but a shine in her eyes and the hint of a quiver around her lips reveal her torment - the sorrow over the death of her parents, as well as over herself, for she knows her quest will ruin her. Around her flows that brutal weapon she has designed herself, a sword-whip, twisted and barbed like she is.

She's... she's fucking brilliant.

The point of all this weirdness: To me, these characters genuinely qualify as feminist icons.

I am not a feminist but I deeply agree, when all the material is consumed that that is also the feeling I get as well, strong, full fledged characters. The complaint I have is not even that you can't tell anything about Ivy in some of her artwork and extra materials (i.e. she's reduced to a pin up), because, sometimes it's okay to just be presented as that, male or female.

The gist of my complaint (and if I interpreted it correctly) the video I posted is that it's not even remotely equal. I mean, it's not that I've never seen a pin up of the Joker that bothers me, it's that the dude's always presented with elements of his character oozing all over the page. If you knew nothing about Batman at all, one look at most art of The Joker would tell you loads about him.

Contrast that with (because I like the example) Ivy. There is art and backstory that tells loads of relatively interesting stuff about her. I don't even object to her being sexified, she's a sexy person (in a dangerous and creepy sort of way), it's that the the sexified/pin up stuff is more of the go-to default whenever she is presented, but when strong male characters are presented it's the opposite, generally their character is presented, the pin up shots, though they exist (hell, the gay fan-porn surely exists in spades for every single character) are the exception.

So the argument then becomes, why can't we treat the female characters, as sexy as they may be, more like the men? It actually makes for a more interesting and engaging landscape. As you found out, Ivy is a deeply interesting (and fucked up) character, but it's hard to tell that from 90% of the stuff that's out there about her.

Finally: Yeah, Ivy is half crazy, really fucking scary, in fact.

Last note for this post, this doesn't address the lack of body type selection we have, I really am annoyed by men, but at least we get some male freaks to choose from. You won't find many playable characters like Big Bessie or Dr. Faustus.