Yes, I meant this. The title is roughly translated from my language to english, therefore it didn't match completely.

Well, the built date was july something before and now after two starts without internet cable the client suddenly updated itself and now the built date is also 3rd of december.

Since it didn't have internet starts but also didn't install the update right away I wonder what it was doing or if it does something I don't know off. It seems like it was checking somehow that a new update is available and then decided that it must force me to go online, but then it waited for some time before installing it.

May it be a bug or a feature, I will check now again how long it will take until the next offline period is over.

Awww, that's so cute. So when offline mode doesn't work reliably, you guys go behind the "Well, Valve says you need internet for Steam, so you can't demand the offline mode to work."-argument.

Then again, according to some, Valve has stated that the offline mode is supposed to work always. So which way is it? You can't have the cake and eat it too, it is either or.

Nowadays modern Windows pretty much needs internet, for all the same things as Steam: activation (of Windows itself), getting updates, many of its functionalities depend on internet connectivity, etc. Hence your argument for it being ok if the "offline mode" of Windows failed to occasionally work applies here too.

Yeah. Degrading the opponent is the best way to conduct an argument, well done, I hope you're proud of yourself for raising my blood pressure a bit!

So anyway, I have no idea where did you see me claim otherwise, but I have always said that you should not rely on offline mode and that you should count on having internet access. My personal experience with offline mode was rather positive, with it running for several weeks on a disconnected computer, but I will never tell anyone that it's reliable, and I will always claim that you can't demand something that's never been agreed upon - there's no mention of offline mode neither in EULA, nor in the minimal requirements page. As it stands, offline mode is Valve's goodwill and I'm thankful for it being there.

Huh? I honestly can't see where you're going with this - since when is saying that somethig should be one way or another any form of official statement or binding contract? If they said "It will always work", then fine, but when someone claims that something should work one wa or another, implying that he's not really sure himself, eh... You really can't hold it over his head now can you?

Car vs. toaster argument. You're applying standards of an operating system, which is essential for your computer to function and be useable, to standards of platform which allows you to play videogames. One not working means you can be royally screwed in certain situations, the other not working is an annoyance at best.

You have to understand that if customers were dissatisfied with the workings of offline mode, Valve would have fixed it already - but vast majority doesn't seem to be. Is it okay that it doesn't work? Of course it's not, I have never claimed that. But there are things higher on Valve's priority list it would seem, and I can't say I blame them.

Soon there will be systems shipping with that same client designed to play video games as the central OS making that system near useless if it refuses to play your games because you can't get online to update it. If they want to push it as a long term solution to replace consoles they should be expected to have equivalent offline functionality as the other ones. Isn't that why Microsoft got all that shit over the Xbox One initially anyways?

Yes, but we're not talking about SteamOS now, are we? It wasn't even released yet, so any discussion on how it is or isn't going to work is premature. That they can't get it right within a client doesn't necassarily mean they won't have different priorities when it comes to OS - or they actually won't, and it that case, OS will most likely be a failure. Too soon to judge.

It was last year, ended 10 months ago, and I'm pretty sure it's relevant. As is the direct quote and promise from Valve that it is designed to be indefinite.

What I find amusing is people who focus on the relatively rare complaints of bugs.

I would not bother arguing. Going on the behalf of steam will just make everyone extra bitchy. Just let it go because they won't!

To be fair, perhaps Steam shouldn't be forcing it's updates on it's users, unless said user is accessing the multiplayer functions. I'm no technical expert on Steam, but will the system really not be able to run, if it isn't absolutely updated to the very latest? (without cracking, meddling, whatnot)

Because with each update, even though it fixes things, it sometimes introduces bugs and changes things around, doesn't it?

Well... It depends, it will probably have trouble with online functions, but that should not apply in offline mode. I would definitely like to see Steam not forcing updates - any updates - on their customer, if the client has to pernamently switch into offline mode for that to work, so be it. There's a lot of room for improvement when it comes to Steam and its services, starting with optional standalone installers for publishers/devs that would allow that. One can only dream.

I think you cannot really know if my negative experience was rare. Who knows how many people really want to use an offline mode longer than a week and how many of them actually report when it doesn't work. And nothing really indicated that is was a bug. Instead it looked like a perfectly normal function of the program telling me that offline mode is not available at the moment and kindly asked me to go online. This still can be a bug but it could be a feature as well.

I will test it again and maybe it will never happen again, but if it does I want a more positive estimation of the frequency of occurence of broken offline modes.
Well than they can quickly make another update (as long as they did not mess up the update function). :)

I think it is one of their key features to allow for frequent automatic updates. Devs included Steam just prefer to have all customers on the latest version. I know that it is not optimal in many cases and would prefer it differently but they ignore this and customers of Steam seem to mostly not caring about it.

Well all any of us can do is go off our own experiences. The internet is too much a den of complaint to really do anything else. For me personally it works every time I use it, for anywhere from 2 weeks to 6 months, and I read Valve saying it is designed to work indefinitely. So I go on that.

But when it fails to work in offline mode, we have people like Fenixp coming up with "The Steam requirements state internet! Why are you expecting Steam to work in offline mode?".

Well, obviously I am expecting that because according to you Valve has said it is supposed to work indefinitely.

If Windows didn't let you you occasionally ("rarely") login because there's some problem with internet connectivity at that point, I'm unsure if you would just shrug your shoulders like you do now. By default, Steam client refusing to work blocks you from most of your (Steam) games. It is not just one game or application behaving badly, it is locking you out of lots of content. Just like a failing Windows login would do.

Like I said in the beginning, naturally if you use the offline mode very rarely or not at all, you won't be hit with this bug/feature. I occasionally use the offline mode (due to gaming on laptops which are not always connected to internet, or are on a network which does not allow Steam connectivity (e.g. due to proxies)), and it isn't that rare for this to occur. Some weeks ago the last time.

(And yes, I always exit and close the Steam client before I shut down Windows.)

Have you noticed that, perhaps, me and StingingVelvet might be two different people, and that might be the reason why are we both telling you something different? Think about it for a second, all right? We might have different opinion on Steam! *gasp*

I would also like to see the source of that quote you keep throwing around, that Valve said Steam should work indefinitely. I don't care for 'Valve fanboys said it!' excuse, you are the one throwing the quote around now - all I can find is that Valve is claiming to fix the offline mode, as they're aware it doesn't actually work, and that it's not broken by design. Which is another point in favor of Valve as they're actually honest about offline mode not working, in addition to not advertising it anywhere which is where your expectations should come from (as opposed to what fanboys are saying which, in turn, is always going to be inaccurate or a flatout lie and you should know better than using what they say as an argument).

Actually, failing Windows locks you out of your entire machine (well most users anyway) whereas failing Steam locks you off playing videogames. I know you refuse to answer to that question as you're still using this absolutely terrible comparison, but do you seriously want to claim that locking you out of using your computer is as bad as not being able to play videogames? Seriously?

Not to mention that Windows actually openly claims that it will always work offline, whereas Valve claims it ... Well, won't. Do you see the slight difference here, when we throw away how absolutely ridiculous the comparison you keep making is?

Just... Even your Windows spin is not working, and that's such an exaggerated comparison it's beyond me how can you even still be using it. If you looked at utility software on the level of Steam, you would see that any sort of offline, no network access modes, whatever not working is a very common occurence - and that even applies to software which openly advertises having such a mode, which Steam is not doing!

I definitely agree that everyone should go off on their own experiences and when I distrust Valve then only because I trust no company completely. Our experiences differ and I must say that the feeling of powerlessness I have with Steam (asking for permission so often) is not a nice one for me. But I'm prejudiced.

My best general philosophy for this would be: never put all the eggs in only one basket and prefer the baskets that give the best conditions.
That is what I wanted to investigate in this thread. I didn't know that Valve already officially acknowledged it. It makes this mode not really useful (for me).

Last three days offline mode worked fine for me although it complained that offline mode doesn't allow me to do all the wonderful things - as if I didn't know.

Here's the actual journalist source, amongst others anyway. Valve says that they're aware of it not working properly and that they're trying to fix the bugs causing these issues - in the meantime, it's just best to count on it not working.