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peke: Snip.
You're right, there is quite few of them. Not too many imho, but still. However the 3rd link from the top was the best for me and think the only reasonable solution.

I really don't understand some people. They bought a game with full knowledge of its online requirements and lack of LAN. Now they are all upset about that fact. If I got to store and buy an apple, I don't complain it's not a banana. You voted with your wallet people.

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Pheace: I hardly said LAN 'must not be implemented'. I'm arguing that it's a pretty small market.
My thought exactly. However there should be a LAN tournament edition or reconnect option for tournaments, because that's where the money is and they rely on stability of the connection. For common folks as us it's useless.
Post edited April 22, 2012 by nagytow
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nagytow: I really don't understand some people. They bought a game with full knowledge of its online requirements and lack of LAN. Now they are all upset about that fact. If I got to store and buy an apple, I don't complain it's not a banana. You voted with your wallet people.

My thought exactly. However there should be a LAN tournament edition or reconnect option for tournaments, because that's where the money is and they rely on stability of the connection. For common folks as us it's useless.
I think most people who want LAN for SC2 just want stable tournaments, LAN would be the simplest solution and the technology for it already exists. Every disconnect can potentially ruin game for a player. Players prepare sneaky builds for certain maps against certain players. For example, if one player goes sneaky 2rax (common early game harass build which involves lots of marines and bunkers) and second player doesn't scout it and instead feels it at it's deadliest. Disconnect at this point would mean that 2raxing player couldn't use the same build on the regame and could potentially end up losing because he has no backup build practised for the specific match. Something like this probably happened to Parting.
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nagytow: I really don't understand some people. They bought a game with full knowledge of its online requirements and lack of LAN. Now they are all upset about that fact. If I got to store and buy an apple, I don't complain it's not a banana. You voted with your wallet people.
Sometimes companies actually implement highly requested features, as shocking as that may seem...

Many wanted LAN and consented to purchase SC2 anyway, thinking Blizzard may later relent due to success and popular request. Others are having their eyes opened to the problem by issues like this. It's not that insane to ask for LAN. After all, it's not really a feature request, it's basically a "take off the padlock" request. I bet it was more work to make sure LAN wasn't possible than it would have been to simply implement the menu options and disable ranking during LAN play.
Post edited April 22, 2012 by orcishgamer
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nagytow: My thought exactly. However there should be a LAN tournament edition or reconnect option for tournaments, because that's where the money is and they rely on stability of the connection. For common folks as us it's useless.
Or a bloody autosave. They could have done it 12 years ago!
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nagytow: I really don't understand some people. They bought a game with full knowledge of its online requirements and lack of LAN. Now they are all upset about that fact. If I got to store and buy an apple, I don't complain it's not a banana. You voted with your wallet people.

My thought exactly. However there should be a LAN tournament edition or reconnect option for tournaments, because that's where the money is and they rely on stability of the connection. For common folks as us it's useless.
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peke: I think most people who want LAN for SC2 just want stable tournaments, LAN would be the simplest solution and the technology for it already exists. Every disconnect can potentially ruin game for a player. Players prepare sneaky builds for certain maps against certain players. For example, if one player goes sneaky 2rax (common early game harass build which involves lots of marines and bunkers) and second player doesn't scout it and instead feels it at it's deadliest. Disconnect at this point would mean that 2raxing player couldn't use the same build on the regame and could potentially end up losing because he has no backup build practised for the specific match. Something like this probably happened to Parting.
Yes Parting used 2 same builds on match & re-match. And things like this drop ur confidence. The whole StarTale team went down after this.
I'm not confident that MarineKing lost internet in that much... I've watched GSL tournaments for the last 13-14 months... and this is the first time shit like this happened... Yes keyboard/mice issues.... they are common ...
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spinefarm: I'm not confident that MarineKing lost internet in that much...
Apparently it's confirmed that it's lost the connectivity to the network because there was an issue with the DHCP server.
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spinefarm: I'm not confident that MarineKing lost internet in that much... I've watched GSL tournaments for the last 13-14 months... and this is the first time shit like this happened... Yes keyboard/mice issues.... they are common ...
GSL/GSTL is usually played in Seoul, those GSTL finals were held in Las Vegas. So it's not really comparable to past performance.
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spinefarm: I'm not confident that MarineKing lost internet in that much...
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nagytow: Apparently it's confirmed that it's lost the connectivity to the network because there was an issue with the DHCP server.
[–]dting888 83 points 19 hours ago
For those who are looking for the technical explanation, we have a complex network infrastructure at the event. According to our network engineer, the symptoms (backstage systems) that we saw even after that main stage lost connectivity seem to point to a DHCP related issue. The way things appear to be set up, Cosmo created different network blocks for the different sections / areas. For instance, the SC2 stage area is in a different network block as the master control (SC2). The master control is shared with the LoL stage and tables. The master control (LoL) is on another block, etc. etc.
What I'm suspecting is that the SC2 stage machine that had issues reached its DHCP half-life and was trying to renewing its IP with the DHCP server. This is likely the cause of the disconnect.
In layman's term, there is protection on the hotel network that disallows connections that have over 24 hour duration. We likely have hit a glitch that caused the disconnect. I will talk to Blizzard tomorrow regarding adding a reconnect option.
The hotel network... lol
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spinefarm: I'm not confident that MarineKing lost internet in that much... I've watched GSL tournaments for the last 13-14 months... and this is the first time shit like this happened... Yes keyboard/mice issues.... they are common ...
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peke: GSL/GSTL is usually played in Seoul, those GSTL finals were held in Las Vegas. So it's not really comparable to past performance.
Yep that could explain a lot ...but yet the setting was made by koreans...
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orcishgamer: They also were lying on stage in the video about what the people were yelling audibly in the background... they have massive motivation to kiss Blizzard's ass in this case and can't be relied upon to be forthright about the real issue.
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orcishgamer: Well, I'm not assuming that they lied in the video about what the fans were chanting, as if they couldn't understand it.
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orcishgamer: they straight up lied on stage in the linked video.
You are blinded by misaimed hatred. You are also uninformed, which is why you use so many "they" in your sentences while reffering to all sorts of people.
The commentary you've heard in the video was by Khaldor and Wolf, the secondary GSL casters who flew in with the teams all the way from Seul, South Korea to commentate the finals of the Team League season they've been casting from the beginning.
They were not "lying" because lying is telling things that are not true with the malicious intention of convincing others to believe in falsehoods. You can't convince a crowd of people that they're shouting something else than they truly are, you can't convince the viewers either when the words can be so clearly heard. You don't laught awkwardly while telling a lie and you don't respond to a lie with "Yeah, something like that ;)".

Let me blow your mind right now - they were JOKING. They knew what was being said and the crowd knew that they knew. They simply wanted to defuse the atmosphere, which is their f***ing job as entertainers. It's not that they fight an ideological battle against some oppressive system - they were faced with facts and had to make do with the hand they were dealt.

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orcishgamer: my understanding was it would have been a huge upset and he'd have probably pulled a sponsorship or something due to it. I don't follow SC2 competitive gaming but I loosely understand it, it kind of smells like a set-up to me...
PLEASE do not make far-reaching conjectures on issues you have "loose" understanding of.



Also:
No one pulled the plug because
A) the "Gom wizard" immediately stormed into the booth to check things
B) they were in the middle of intense micro when this happened
C) they had cameras pointed at them at all times. There's no getting away with shit like that.

There was a guy with a cheerful saying "Dustin Browder is right there - bring out your pitchforks !". Alongside him sat Mike Morheim, CEO of Blizzard. So much for "immediately making phone calls" and bs like that ;). Also - this was an inconvenience, not the end of the world. It's not like the moment this happened everyone at Blizzard shat their pants and started hyperventilating at the magnitude of travesty which had occurred. MM and DB might've felt slightly embarrassed... but you know what ? Shit happens.

Another thing, which almost makes me want to start reading Kotaku religiously:
"Blizzard might not want to add LAN support to StarCraft II. I understand that. But with the audience for these tournaments growing larger every day, some sort of match continuation mechanic might be in order. Give a guy 10 minutes in case the power goes out, that sort of thing.

That's quite a mouthful. It's just easier to chant "We want LAN!""
The ability to rejoin was my first thought when I saw this.
Post edited April 22, 2012 by Vestin
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Pheace: Uh, no LAN doesn't preclude playing with friends does it?
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hedwards: First off, I assume you mean exclude or prevent. If I'm wrong the rest of this post isn't going to make any sense.

The point is, that you're giving up all of the benefits of using a LAN and gaining all of the downsides of playing online. Yes, I guess you can do your own private games, but by the same token, doing exactly what you would have been doing otherwise with a significantly worse set of options isn't something that I would regard as defensible.

It might make sense for Blizzard, but it's just like the Multiplayer only D3 has precisely zero to do with creating a compelling product and everything to do with Blizzard telling people how and where they can play.

What's more the whole think represents a disincentive to people playing from the same room as now you've got to route all of those people through the same ISP and back, adding latency in the meantime.

Bah, I say bah.
I say bah too. I only play multi-player locally with people I know. It's a main reason I also have some console games and consoles are restricting local multi-player more and more nowadays too. I don't know how someone can say that no one wants local multi-player anymore unless they are spying on everyone to see how often they play.

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nagytow: I really don't understand some people. They bought a game with full knowledge of its online requirements and lack of LAN. Now they are all upset about that fact. If I got to store and buy an apple, I don't complain it's not a banana. You voted with your wallet people.
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orcishgamer: Sometimes companies actually implement highly requested features, as shocking as that may seem...

Many wanted LAN and consented to purchase SC2 anyway, thinking Blizzard may later relent due to success and popular request. Others are having their eyes opened to the problem by issues like this. It's not that insane to ask for LAN. After all, it's not really a feature request, it's basically a "take off the padlock" request. I bet it was more work to make sure LAN wasn't possible than it would have been to simply implement the menu options and disable ranking during LAN play.
And this is why I don't understand whether or not to include LAN play is an argument. I don't think that some arguments on the other side of the discussion are wrong but just seem pointless to me. If nobody wants LAN play they simply don't use the menu option.
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Vestin: Let me blow your mind right now - they were JOKING. They knew what was being said and the crowd knew that they knew. They simply wanted to defuse the atmosphere, which is their f***ing job as entertainers. It's not that they fight an ideological battle against some oppressive system - they were faced with facts and had to make do with the hand they were dealt.
Let me blow your mind, then (I mean fair is fair): They were avoiding a heated issue with humor, it's both disingenuous and a way to promote falsehood. Oh and it's a way to kiss ass since Blizzard was in attendance (and may have partially funded the event and/or purses and promoted the event).
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Vestin: PLEASE do not make far-reaching conjectures on issues you have "loose" understanding of.
My understanding is based on the reading of the first two articles linked in this thread, so fuck off. Or keep pretending like I'm pulling shit out of my ass based on nothing whatsoever. I'm sure that's not disingenuous, either.

I never claimed one of "those" two pulled the plug. If you're not clever enough to conceive of ways shit like this gets rigged in real life, in real sporting events, when real money is on the line, then you're less clever than I gave you credit for; but most likely spouting garbage. Think about it for 2 seconds, were there parties deeply invested in seeing MarineKing be the winner? If the answer is even "maybe" then it's damned possible something nefarious took place. The timing is rather ludicrously suspicious, if that doesn't make you cynical, I don't know what would.

Oh good, if Blizzard has the CEO on site then they didn't need a phone call and, duh, clearly they wouldn't want to kiss his ass, lol.

The fact is, Blizzard's resistance to LAN has bordered on asinine, it's not well thought it, just like the inability to resume game state, as stated in the article. It seems mostly to be because they can do whatever the fuck they like, or at least think they can. I can only hope they hit the skids like all the other companies who've shit on their communities has, but clearly it's not going to happen quite yet.
Post edited April 23, 2012 by orcishgamer
I had a pretty nice post going before I lost it... but then I read further into you batshit insane response and figured recreating it is not worth it.

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orcishgamer: They were avoiding a heated issue with humor, it's both disingenuous and a way to promote falsehood.
This is the innocent start that appears to make sense but doesn't. A single "What were they SUPPOSED to say ?" dispells it nicely, unless you are willing to argue that casters are meant to further rile up a crowd instead of entertaining it.

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orcishgamer: Oh and it's a way to kiss ass
How the fuck is that necessary ? Seriously - we're not dealing with Caligula here, you're not going to get executed for slipping up is some trivial way. There's no explanation given for this interpretation of events... and frankly - there can be none. You're just misreading people.

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orcishgamer: My understanding is based on the reading of the first two articles linked in this thread, so fuck off.
LOL. I had a list of my humble credentials but I guess you're more qualified to make judgements...

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orcishgamer: I never claimed one of "those" two pulled the plug.
You'd have to be even more insane than you sound. Khaldor and Wolf were nowhere near any plugs, so that's obviously not what I meant. I was saying that MKP wouldn't be able to pull the plug. Hell - Tastosis even made fun of this hypothetical situation months ago, saying "Imagine a player counting down, the camera zooms in on him and he's holding the internet cable". The PLAYERS had cameras on them.

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orcishgamer: If you're not clever enough to conceive of ways shit like this gets rigged in real life, in real sporting events, when real money is on the line, then you're less clever than I gave you credit for;
There's a difference between being clever and being a paranoid schizophrenic. I may be both but I still retain enough sanity to know that neither a motive nor a way are anywhere near likely to exist.
That's like the elaborate theories proving Americans never landed on the moon... that postulate so complicated and improbable efforts that actually *landing* on the Moon is cheaper, simpler and more reliable.
You're also creeping into GameRager territory of small ontological claims. Namely - unlike trying to prove convincingly that something took place, you concentrate all your efforts on convincing people that there is a theoretical possibility.
Yeah, there always is. So what ?

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orcishgamer: Think about it for 2 seconds, were there parties deeply invested in seeing MarineKing be the winner? If the answer is even "maybe" then it's damned possible something nefarious took place.
I don't even... You know this tells us A LOT more about you than about the world, right ? Just look at what you've typed. LOOK at it. Look at that shit. If something nasty is even remotely likely to be done, then it is likely that it will be done ? Seriously ? This is your world-view ?

I think I would've been more credible than that by claiming that we're dealing with Koreans here and they still believe in this thing called "honor". But that's not really necessary...

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orcishgamer: The timing is rather ludicrously suspicious
Which is all the more proof that what you're saying is nonsense. If there was a man behind the curtain, he would've known better than to do anything glaringly obvious.
That's one thing.
Secondly - the judges might've as well given a win to Parting if the situation looked sufficiently grim. Unless, of course, you are going to argue that the judges were also "in on it".
Thirdly - you can't just nudge these things into place by a single disconnect, much less have it planned. A team needs to get to the finals on its own merits (unless, of course, we assume some cheating has been going on since the very start). A regame is just that - a chance for the better player to win (unless you think they'd keep accidently disconnecting the game over and over until the player "they" want to win would win).
Fourth reason - why the hell, of all places, would people cheat in a foreign country ? Is John the Translator the mastermind behind Prime's victory ;) ? Are we to assume that it's the foreigners that were "pulling the strings" ? To what end, FFS ?
Fifth thing - let me transcribe this:
"(15:46 - 16:08) Wolf: What you're saying is exactly right - MarineKing has 2500 minerals but Parting... does not have enough money to continue production ! Look at the production tab ! When the production tab comes up, look at what you see. We see EVERYTHING, it's SO wide for MarineKing. Look at that ! He just has SO MUCH production constantly, he has SO MUCH MONEY; Parting DOES NOT have the money, so MarineKing is just trading again and again and eventually Parting will starve out here. MarineKing is just... unstoppable right now."
At 17:28 the disconnect occurs. Parting has quite a momentum going but Terrans can deal surprisingly well with scrappy situations, especially when it comes to defending, especially if you're a micro god like MKP. Parting needed some momentum to NOT DIE. After he got it, he might've as well expanded behind it and the game would've evened out. He wasn't necessarily charging up all the ramps to siege up the production facilities in the main (not only place where they were, BTW) and even if he were to do so - there was still some hope left for MKP. But that's getting too technical, though I'm fairly certain the judges wouldn't have called a regame if they deemed the situation TRULY hopeless... and they're former progamers, IIRC, so they can make such calls.

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orcishgamer: I can only hope they hit the skids like all the other companies who've shit on their communities has, but clearly it's not going to happen quite yet.
You know what I hope for ? The implementation of nice features.
You know - not people being punished for their failure to give the gaming community everything it expects (can you say "entitlement" ? No ? How about "whiny little bitches" ?) ... but merely - that things get better, e-sports continue to grow and that dashing devil, MKP, finally wins a GSL. Amen.
LoL, that face is epic win.
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Vestin: snip
Actually at the moment of the disconect MKP made a big mistake and screwed his maroders. He was without army & Parting next to his racks with his whole army. To be honest MKP didn't have a chance to get out of this. Luckily the disconect came out on the perfect moment for him. That is why people are angry.

And trust me I like the style of MarineKing over Parting ... damn this guy can separate his troops...