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Even with DS9's war, it was regularly about the characters rather than the war, "In the pale moonlight" is a good example, strong story of deception and morality which could just as easily been done in a lazy way with lots of shooting but it turned into one of the best epsidoes of the show.
The problem with Enterprise is that it took them too long to get going and they suffered the effects of syndication reset switch programming. When they did the arc with the xindi and the multi-episode arcs in series 4, the show's quality increased markedly and naturally it got killed right at the point where it was getting really good
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Lone3wolf: I thought it was an OK film : Certainly better than anything after "Voyage Home", probably better than any 2 or 3 put together, but it just wasn't Trek for me.

I loved First Contact, but other than that yup.
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Lone3wolf: What they did to the Uhura character should get them 20 years in a hard-labour prison.

Yeah. That's not Uhura in the least, I don't know who thought THAT was a reasonable extension of her personality...
The Star Trek movies ended with Star Trek VI and the series for the most part with DS9. I will never agree that Voyager and the others exist and breath the same atmosphere as my classic films I grew up watching.
And my opinion on this film? It's Star Wars but repackaged to look like Trek but it isn't.
Wow. There's a lot of hate here. I know I'm going to be hanged for this, but here goes:
*gulp*
My favorite Star Trek series was Voyager. The Original Series was a little too campy for me to fully enjoy, (although it had its moments), and the grandiose speeches about morality and humanity sometimes bored me if they went on for too long. And I absolutely LOVED the new '09 movie. I had hated the Original Series before I saw the movie, but because of how good the movie was, I made myself watch some Original Series episodes, and found a few that I actually liked. So, in summary, loved Voyager, loved the new movie.
*dives under the desk to avoid the flamewar*
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JadeUzuki: So, in summary, loved Voyager, loved the new movie.
*dives under the desk to avoid the flamewar*

Hehe no flames from me, I loved voyager as well even if there was too much recycling from the next generation. Even with the recycled episodes, they were usually still good.
I love all the trek series, there's gold in all of them. Yes there's also turds in each of them, I think similitude was the worst star trek episode out of all the series
I'm certainly not going to flame anyone for liking Voyager but there are several reasons it's the most hated of all the series.
- Inconsistant writing. One Episode Janeway will risk everything to save a crew member, the next she is offering them on a plate. Literally every characters personality changed from episode to episode so it was very hard to say you actually knew them.
- Bad acting. Robert Picardo, Tim Russ and Jeri Ryan were excellent. The others showed all the acting range of a rotten apple. Kate Mulgrew and Robert Beltran in particular didn't actually seem to care at all, they might as well have just phoned in their parts.
- The Delta Quadrant. People watched Star Trek because of Klingons and Romulans and to a lesser extent Ferengi and Cardassians. These were races you actually came to know and to a degree care about. Kazon, Hirogen, Talaxians, Krenim, VIdiians and Malons no one really cared about them. This is why whenever possible the Voyager writers kept bringing back Alpha Quadrant species into the show.
- Plot armour a mile thick - All Star Trek shows are protected by plot armour but Voyager's writers took the piss. Voyager was as powerful or as weak as each writer wanted it to be. If they wanted to beam the crew out when it should be impossible then by god they would beam them out and to hell with the Treknobabble (Scorpion - Transporter Skeletal Lock)
Voyager was going down the rating toilet and like the Emperor Nero, Brannon Braga was playing the fiddle as the franchise burned.
Post edited January 15, 2010 by Delixe
I loved Voyager, too, disliked DS9. ABHORRED Enterprise.
Oh yeah, Jeri Ryan - great acting.
Post edited January 15, 2010 by BoxOfSnoo
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JadeUzuki: Wow. There's a lot of hate here. I know I'm going to be hanged for this, but here goes:
*gulp*
My favorite Star Trek series was Voyager. The Original Series was a little too campy for me to fully enjoy, (although it had its moments), and the grandiose speeches about morality and humanity sometimes bored me if they went on for too long. And I absolutely LOVED the new '09 movie. I had hated the Original Series before I saw the movie, but because of how good the movie was, I made myself watch some Original Series episodes, and found a few that I actually liked. So, in summary, loved Voyager, loved the new movie.
*dives under the desk to avoid the flamewar*

No 'flaming', just passionate debate and explanation. We are above pettiness.
Personally, I think TOS is best enjoyed after watching TNG and TMP. TOS might have been 'campy' because the outrageousness of some of the scenarios or the silliness with which it treated 'love' but I think the subtlety of the Kirk/Spock/Bones (and the rest of the bridge crew) friendship and family relationship was quite emotive and sometimes melancholy. TNG at least puts into context the philosophy behind the people, and the functioning of the crew and ship into the background, since while this was somewhat implied in TOS it was never done in such a way as to make you feel like the entire crew was committed to the business of discovery. It is reassuring to imagine that the TOS crew spent plenty of days monitoring gaseous anomalies and simply enjoying normal life as opposed to facing a catastrophe every day, and the sort of romantic lifestyle of the philosopher explorer gradually seems to piece together in a very substantial way (at least in my mind!) after seeing Kirk and co.'s character under stress.
In the same way that we employ theories of impossible, extreme events to guide us in more complex, real-life events. TOS constructed the character of its crew by the indirect, implied way in which they lived and dealt with their adventures as opposed to direct communication of their lives, history, fears etc.. I felt this was especially the case in TMP and TNG (at least with important characters like Picard. Diana was less subtle). DS9 and VOY seemed to deal with causality the other way round quite a lot (although I may be mistaken, and some more complex reason in film style or narrative might be the cause of my persuasion)
Of course TOS, TMP and TNG had poor moments too, but I'm still rather more fond of them than of the other series. They're all good enough for my tastes anyway: movies and series (with the exception of Nemesis, the new movie and Enterprise, although it's unfair to comment on Enterprise because I was put off early, and haven't seen much since)
Post edited January 15, 2010 by fax_
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Delixe: I'm certainly not going to flame anyone for hating Voyager but there are several reasons it's the most hated of all the series.

I agree with every point you brought up. I watched all of Voyager several years ago and I was bored out of my mind for most of it. It lacked substance and direction.
The Original Series is still my favorite out of all the series. Most of all because of the chemistry between Kirk/Spock/Bones. I love those guys.
Funny, I hated Enterprise *especially* when the Xindi thing started... Bacula put on this grumpy face for another episode; nothing particularly changed from beginning to end (the season basically consisted of the first and last episode)... etc. There are very few shows that I actually planned to watch that I just got tired of and stopped... but that was one of em*.
Well you wanted flames, here we go! :D
* I also really enjoyed Andromeda at the beginning. The last season was horrible, though. Same with SG-1, after O'Neill left it was basically over.
The problem with Enterprise was the damage was already done by Voyager. A huge amount of fans had moved on to other shows like SG-1 and I really don't know what Braga was thinking by dropping the Star Trek name from the first series and once again introducing races that no one cared about (Suliban). What the fans were promised was the founding of the Federation with lots of Vulcans, Klingons, Orions, Betazoids, Andorians and Norsicans but what they got was Suliban and other nameless nobodies, cameo's by WWE Wrestlers and some stupid Temporal Cold War crap.
Manny Coto was brought in for series 4 and finally delivered what was promised but by then it was too little, too late.
TOS was a great 2 and a half years of shows : It had a bit of everything - sci-fi, action, drama, cerebral, conflict. It had great episodes , it had bad. On the whole, it was, and still is, watchable as family entertainment. It highlighted issues of the day that were, and mostly still are, relevant. It showed a hope for our continued existence as a species when in all probability we're probably going to wipe ourselves out in a flash of nuclear fire. Or worse.
Character interactions were both militaristic, yet also a family. Kirk was brash, hot-headed and knew when to apply or disregard the rules, tempered by Spock who grew vastly (discounting the laughing version in the original un-aired pilot) during the run : starting off as a stick-in-the-mud by-the-book "man" and later becoming more "relaxed" and (for a Vulcan) jocular. Bones McCoy was gruff, acerbic, and my kinda guy ^_^. Hated failure and death, but often provided keen insight into Spock, Kirk and himself. Sulu seemed almost flighty (pun intended) at times - a new hobby every week, but when the chips were down, and fast action was needed, he was the man to do the job. Uhura, although the concept might seem dated now, was a ground-breaking character for the time : A black woman, on the bridge, in a position of command? Checkov didn't appear until part-way through season 2, but quickly settled in, to be the young boy of the family,. He had some good episodes written for him. Scotty was Scotty was Scotty. Loud, hard-head, ultra-dependable. Good man to have at your back.
TNG : Didn't really get "good" until half-way through Season4, IMO. First season was actually terrible. Wesley was an ultra-annoying version of Checkov, and generally just came across as someone needing a baseball bat to the head. Picard was calm, almost cold, very controlled. Riker....seemed almost as changeable as Sulu - one episode dry and calm, the next a womaniser, the next a hot-head. Data grew as a character too, in line with his oft-stated goal of "becoming more human", but he did have his off-days. Deanna Troi ... irked me for some reason...must be the voice, because the curves certainly weren't displeasing :P Speaking of voices - Crusher's temporary replacement, Pulaski, has always annoyed the s**t out of me, no matter what she was in :-\ Crusher herself was amusing, but no McCoy. She tended to be very flighty and skitterish but did the job when needed.
DS9 - Never really got into this version of the show - space station. how dull. Then they threw in a bone of a ship, Defiant, which got destroyed 2 or 3 times...just....mediocre all the way through. Especially with the religion and Dominion War aspects. Can you believe they wrote a whole season for a holo-character??? He was better off in The Time Tunnel :-\
Voyager - laughably awful. It's almost like the writers had given up with DS9 and were just going through the motions for most of its seven year run. Kes was a cute little thing that had some good stories and episodes. And as for Janeway, I've always had a thing for Katherine Hepburn, so she was a win for me ^_^. Seven of Nine with her Borg-implant enhanced bazooka boobs added a little colour in the vein of Spock and Data exploring humanity, but she just was bland otherwise. Paris and Kim and Neelix and Chakotay and Tuvok and B'elanna seemed to be clay all through the run : becoming what was needed in each episode, then reset for the next. Yet another whole season dedicated to holo-characters - or in this case, a whole town of them :-\ Still, it was more fun than the dour, grey, dull DS9.
Enterprise - Makes you wonder why they even bothered. It just never started to live up to what was claimed for it. Changed it's ethos too many times. Re-wrote a lot of back-history from the other shows. Alien Nazis, world-destroying probes, interfering and rude vulcans. blandness all the way through. I kept waiting for Archer to say "Oh boy. Why haven't I leaped, Al?" The rest of the crew seemed very disinteresting too. Crap, crap, crap.
Star Trek 2009 was great. It had one stain:
Scotty.
I am sorry, but Shaun of the Dead stujk up the screen as Scotty.
I do agree with a few things said on here:
Enterprise sucked. Good gravy, it sucked. *shudders* Scott Bakula was bad enough, but ruining the series cannon the way they did just killed it for me. And I didn't help that they recylcled some of the Voyager scripts...hey, writers, I already say it on Voyager: I don't need to see the same exact plot, just with different characters!
Robert Beltran sucked. I loved the whole cast of Voyager...except for him. I know, I know, the writers wanted to put a Native American on the crew, but not only did I not want to see Native American ritual crap on Star Trek, but he was boring. At the beginning of Season 4, Kess left the ship, and my mom and I were both wondering why they couldn't have killed off Chakotay instead. He was boring and useless; Tuvok would have been a much better first officer.
The first season of TNG sucked. Yes, yes it did. I swear, if Wesley had saved the crew one more time, I was going to drive to Paramount and continuously pummel the writers. I also hated Pulaski from season 2. You could almost hear the thoughts of the writers: "Hey, I know, let's replace Dr. Crusher with another doctor. We'll make the new one just like McCoy, only a woman!! It'll be GREAT!" Epic fail, Paramount.
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BoxOfSnoo: * I also really enjoyed Andromeda at the beginning. The last season was horrible, though.

Oh yeah, Andromeda and Earth Final Conflict both had much the same journey of quality
Series 1: Awesome
Series 2: Pretty good but I miss <departed cast member> and the writing is a bit slack in places
Series 3: Hmm, this is a bit average
Series 4: Meh
Series 5: UGH! What the fuck? Seriously, I'm only watching this now from bloody minded subborness to see the end
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JadeUzuki: The first season of TNG sucked. Yes, yes it did. I swear, if Wesley had saved the crew one more time, I was going to drive to Paramount and continuously pummel the writers.

And you'd have had trek fans lining up around the block to give you an alibi
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JadeUzuki: I also hated Pulaski from season 2. You could almost hear the thoughts of the writers: "Hey, I know, let's replace Dr. Crusher with another doctor. We'll make the new one just like McCoy, only a woman!! It'll be GREAT!" Epic fail, Paramount.

Oh yes, they evidently learned from the mistake though, thankfully.
Post edited January 16, 2010 by Aliasalpha