I know that as a gaming forum this place gets a lot of off-topic threads, but here is one I need to get out there. These things are really bothering me.

1) In response to reading ;
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/us_government_is_seizing_tax_refunds_of_people_because_of_the_debts_of_their_parents/post1 , I was going to respond, but after having spent 20 minuets writing up what I knew and looking for links I thought that I would actually post a new thread.
The point is that the citizens of the USA are having a spot of trouble with the way their government is acting at the moment and even the most dedicated to the flag should right now be a little worried (unless they work in office), but they are not the only ones. We all should be getting worried, I cannot speak for every country in the world and what I do know is of course only ever half the picture at best, but I do know some things and they scare me.

So, first a little piece to the above mentioned link;
The US government is becoming very anti-American. Even to the point that people could only actually vote for one puppet or another (they had major support from the same people, talk about a fixed race).
So do not blame the Obama administration. It is the same people running the country now as when Nixon was in "charge".


2) Now to everyone;
USA, Europe, UK, Australia et al are all BROKE. I mean that the money we are using to buy things is all fake. Your imaginary friend has access to as much real cash as the average citizen in any of the above countries / continents. Actually more Africans have access to "real" money then those in the west. :)

The governments in said listed countries / continents cannot afford to lose money and need to claw back what-ever and where-ever they can. I cannot give much on other countries, but they are all trying to claw back what they can, and they shortsightedly sell off anything they can for that quick cash injection. The truth is we are all heading for a second crash.
It will probably hit within the next decade as successive governments do all they can to make themselves look good, whilst never even bothering to patch up the cracks. The tax rebait in the US is just an easy way of stopping money being lost as they already have it in their pockets and can see a way of stopping it going out again.
The real fears come when Russia, China, India and the other manufacturing 3rd worlds come to ask our governments to give them their money. It will hurt us because not one of these our countries has enough to pay off its debts to ANY ONE of these countries, let alone all of them and they know it.
I know that China has actually bought up huge amounts of UK debt to keep us buying from them. What does it mean? We in the UK are effectively paying our taxes so we can send money off to China to pay off the debt they helped us out of, to then pay them back the money for supplying us. We pay them twice.



These are all based on UK knowledge but anyone can easily find 1:1 representation in their own country. Links were quickly grabbed as I am off to bed, but there is lots on all below.

- In the UK we are watching as our NHS (something we boast about to the rest of the world) is torn into liquidation and private hands. Hugh sections are falling under "private investment", and it is even being given to companies like BUPA and Virgin.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/farewell-to-the-nhs-19482013-a-dear-and-trusted-friend-finally-murdered-by-tory-ideologues-8555503.html

- Our schools are being released from STATE CONTROL and into the hands of businesses. MicroSoft actually has a stake in the school I went to!!!
We also have more religious schools then ever and schools who are being forced closed pushing children into not having a designated school because the morons that were given a school to run have no idea of business, teaching or children.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-26335206

- Nearly all fuels, utilities, clothing and foods are now being brought in to the UK because the government and banks (actively) will not support companies in need, even if they provided a service needed by the UK people. Instead the UK government is actively looking at trying to crush small UK businesses with the hope of creating more jobs through foreign investment. WHERE do they think a majority of these jobs will be?
This is the same as when they sold off British Telecom, British Petroleum and the Rail Network back under Thatcher.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10737749/Selling-UK-Plc-is-the-only-way-we-can-avoid-a-full-blown-crisis.html

- House prices are being pushed up again, even though we are meant to be building even more houses, which should bring the price down!
Better yet more houses are being built on flood planes with the need for flood defenses that are then not being implemented correctly. Some even cause floods in other places that never flooded before.
The entire point in pushing so much building? To created jobs - that only last in the short term.
http://www.euromoney.com/Article/3247058/Housing-bubble-fears-grow-as-UK-property-price-recovery-gathers-pace.html

- High-street banks are still failing, they are being propped up artificially still in the hopes that they can then hold themselves, but here in the UK the sale of banks is being touted as a good thing as we watch them claim to be making "profits" again, but as they are using the same old "tried and tested" methods of financial creation they are soon to fail again.
-- looking for links is mostly US, will try harder later.

- The UK government actively lied to the populace about the number of immigrants entering the UK illegally.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10562740/David-Cameron-lying-to-British-voters-about-the-EU-and-immigration-Viviane-Reding-claims.html

- The government is even now trying to convince people that there is a divide, now between those who do work and those who do not by using the television to promote programs that show the "poor" getting a better life on benefits then those working and asking "Do you think this is fare on YOU??".
- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10579987/Benefits-Street-the-real-scandal.html


3) Lastly, because it has been annoying me all day;
I have also had to warn people who have seen the horrible financial add on TV, YouTube, Newspapers and Magazines that advise people as to how they too could play the big financial game, that should they play they could loose money too. "You should never bet more then you can afford to lose" is a great adage that people should learn applies to any time you place money down in the hopes of increasing it.
I even had the "pleasure" of someone asking me if I had heard about investing in cars, and one in particular, as there had been a program on the television telling people how to invest in cars and make money by following their simple instructions. I could not for the life of me explain clearly enough how following advice like that seen on the television without any knowledge of the market could only end badly. Especially when I found that the car they were told about was costing upwards of £2000 for basically scrap (I feel someone somewhere has a few they are waiting to off-load).

You're correct in most of what you say. However, I don't think it's reason to start panicking. Every moment in history has its own list of sky-is-falling scary things.

Don't worry about tomorrow. Each day has worries enough of its own.

Plus, and this is the saving grace, you can always be poor! Yes, I think that those in power should be reminded of their duty to help the powerless. Yes, I think there should be an ongoing fight for justice.

I think Francis of Asisi showed a way to do that, to counter the corrupting influence of wealth and political power by choosing poverty and holiness, by bringing hope and change and renewal from the bottom up, one by one, face to face.

Even though things are dire, there is hope.

Cheers!

The solution is the fix.

If shite hits fan, we will be relying on the very same systems which would have prevented shite from hitting fan in the first farking place.

If national and global economies continue current "collapse" trend, it will be to our local producers of food and stuffs, which we will look to for our continued survival. If we but did this now; we would gain local food security while optimizing the nutritional value of our food. We would suffer less economic drama if our goods could be produced locally from locally sourced resource. We would reduce petro usage on orders of magnitude such that the oil industry looses it's power to manipulate every industrial nation on earth. Same goes for other industries - if we as individuals, stop giving these bad guys money, they will stop doing bad things by the simple default of not having the monies required to corrupt governments.

Additionally, as we spend money on locally produced goods, from locally owned businesses, we fatten our local economies towards a perpetual shared prosperity. We stop exporting our dollars out of our communities to stagnate in the hands of a few; but rather keep it local where it flows freely through the community. Back and forth this money goes from local worker to local producer. Being taxed locally to fund local needs. Going to local innovators and local providers. Putting money in the pockets of those who consume -thereby perpetuating the cycle of shared, perpetual prosperity.

If the economy continues its crash towards projected end, we will have to rely on local stuffs anyhow. If natural disasters wreak yet worse havoc, we will be utterly reliant on local producers for recovery, at least for a time (recovery prolonged by years as has been the case with recent disasters in the u.s.).

So why not do this now, rather than wait? Why not end corruption by boycotting those who corrupt. Why not gain food and resource security by growing our local industries with our spending. Why not protect our habitat by altering status quo consumption and production. Why not participate potently in the democracy of capitalism with the simple act of thoughtful spending. (the list of "why nots" grew so big i had to snip them - so why not nip this trouble in the bud, with the same secateurs we'd have to use in order to survive that buds bloom?)

It will be far less painful if we thoughtfully and incrementally shape this change which comes, rather than be shaped by the sudden unyielding presence of it.

Well for what it's worth, the way things are ran cannot last. Every civilization that has lost it's middle class has seen it's way out of continuity. Look at Rome. They went from having a republic to an empire and shortly fell apart, sending a large part of the world into a time period referred to as the "dark age". Modern governments employ some principles from that fallen empire to keep the masses distracted for now. Ever hear of "Circus and Bread"? Basically in a nutshell, to keep people from revolting hard, Rome would throw spectacles (the Circus) and offer grain for free (the Bread). Eventually the free grain and extravagant spending (not just the "spectacles") caused Rome to fall as people had no incentive to perpetuate that civilization. The ruling class no longer related to their constituents and in turn the constituents no longer saw fit to send taxes to a civilization that no longer worked or at least worked for them. People banded together in loose confederacies that had to defend themselves. We have a shot at avoiding this fate, but it's going to take collective will on everyone's part and may mean sacrificing some ideals you would have in a candidate in the short term for the continued existence of the Republic. We need real citizens in the high levels of politics. Not some group of weirdo's who got low political offices playing nightly games of Politics: The Masquerade after getting out of college.

I didn't vote the CEOs into place who are keeping broadband speed tied up, I didn't vote the Walton Family to become fat and old off a massive fortune that they could use to give each and every worker 20/h and full health benefits with money to spare, I didn't vote for the suits who run the NFL to trick the USA into not taxing them despite making billions on games and merch, and I could go on.

The only problem I have with what you said is this, because it always comes off to me as meaning that we should be "pragmatic" and accept the lesser of the evils when faced with nothing but evil choices (especially in terms of voting).

My problem with that is that there really are, IMO, things that should be absolutely, and unequivocally unacceptable. And the number one thing on that list is anything that intentionally results in human suffering.

When faced with a choice of X amount of human suffering or Y amount of human suffering, I reject both out of hand, and instead suggest any system that results in such false choices is an illegitimate one.

"Shortly"? There 4 good long centuries between Julius Caesat and the last emperor of Rome, that's not what I call "shortly". And look up, you'll see that those "Dark Ages" weren't as dark as they are rumored to be.

That's nitpicking towards the topic, but I had to do it, being a PhD in Medieval History. ^_^

That being said, I do agree with many points. I'm French, and our famous "Securite Sociale" is being slowly butchered to the profit of private insurance companies, under the pretext that it's too expensive and the State cannot afford it anymore. Which is false. The real problem is allowing comapnies to do business in France, earning billions and paying NO tax because they are hosted in tax havens such as Luxemburg, Ireland, Switzerland, etc... With those billions, there would be NO medical bills problems in France, there would be no pensions problems in France, and that would let far enough money to boost up Culture and Education.

But with politicians in power that have been, are or will be members/friends of the private sector, there's no hope anything change soon.

The second problem in Europe is that since around 1973, by european treaties, National Treasures are not allowed to lend money to the State, as it was possible before. Now, the State has to ask PRIVATE banks, the same that work with audit companies like Standard&Poor, Moody's and so on, the VERY SAME that for example overrated Greece's credit and then asked billions when everything collapsed over there. Talk about hacking the system to your own profit.

So, yes, I agree with lots of things, especially developing the local market. I'm really angry when I see horse meat from Argentina can be sold cheaper in France than french horse meat. Neocons will say that it's because French taxes on labor are too high, I'll answer by saying that Argentinian taxes on labor are damn too low.

Free market is good. Capitalism is good... as long as it doesn't mean a very small fraction of people get all and the vast majority of people (who really produce things) get nothing.

The most important representatives in this country were never truly elected by the general populace and we didn’t even have the ability to choose between two or three pre-screened senatorial candidates the way we do now until the 20th century.

Despite repeated attempts to give the people more say in how they are governed, many are starting to feel like they have even less say than ever. While some of this may be due to an overreaction to some unpopular policy changes, It seems to me that the limited choices presented to the public have become less meaningful as the usual trend of expanding the role of the government at all levels has increased.

While federal, state, and local authority figures may not have quite the depth of power they once had at the height of the first or second world wars, recent news stories and more reliable enforcement have have left the impression that the reach of our government has been extended greatly in recent time. Even televised news will speak of things like our physical mail being cataloged, our email being read, our automobiles being tracked, government officials moving in and out of important positions in the private sector with ease, enforcement officials that receive little punishment after ignoring basic regulations, and new regulations that seem to do more to restrict the rights of private citizens than protect them.

Furthermore, the difference in policy between the only two political parties with any power seems to have decreased over the last 60 years. Many “Old Time” democrats took up permanent residence on the other side of the “aisle” in response to changes the Democratic Party was undergoing during the civil rights movement. These new arrivals to the the Republican Party where able win seats and appointments in places where the Republican Party had lost power after WWII or had not often had it to begin with and became a major influence from that point on. The Democratic Party had once been known for its support for the south, hawkish stance on foreign affairs, and supporting the regulation of “objectionable” materials while the Republican Party were once derided as a bunch of isolationists that didn’t throw their full support behind the war effort during WWII.

The Libertarian party was formed in response to what was seen as the hijacking of the Republican Party by a bunch of political exiles from the Democratic Party, but hasn’t really amounted to much. They’re currently too fractured to present a cohesive image to the public and some of their most well known candidates have earned reputations as conspiracy nuts.

It’s not hard to find yourself in a position where you simply can’t vote based on a specific policy issue because it wont come up for public vote and all the candidates that have a fighting chance are in complete agreement on that issue.

My response to the title is;

"No, I did not! I voted for the other side; there was absolutely no reason the Liberals should have gotten into power and now they are ruining our country. Just like they ruined our country the last time they were in and the time before that and the time before that!"

/Facepalm

The entire system of world economy is so broken part of me wishes it would crash and burn. If people were just reasonable and could do so calmly and peacefully.

If you purchase anything from the global conglomerates who harm, or have any financial dealings with big banks, then yes you have voted for the current state of things.

Well to be sure we can't throw out our humanity and common sense in search of an answer. We wouldn't want to perpetuate a horrid fascist regime in the desperate search for a solution (World War 2 had such a situation). That being said, there will never be a candidate that satisfys everyone's ideal of a perfect politician. I'll use my country as an example; suppose a politician comes out for president and has a clear and concise plan to strengthen the Constitution and BIll of Rights, such as dismantling the TSA, preventing top level organizations from spying on it's own citizens without due cause and the person has a great plan for improving trademark and patent rights. That same politician with a lot of good ideas might have a few you won't agree with. Like maybe continued support on universal health care for abortion or stricter gun ownership laws. Maybe some of these much needed improvements would actually cause citizens who were making a lot of money in the old system to not make as much money since they have to pay more taxes. They probably won't vote for this person since it does not give them direct benefit to do so even though the long term benefits of a stable society would benefit them directly.