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http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/09/71743

Americans are six times as likely to die from the flu than terrorism. But you won't see us spending a trillion dollars on flu prevention or allowing ourselves to be molested by TSA agents to prevent it.
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babby: But you won't see us spending a trillion dollars on flu prevention or allowing ourselves to be molested by TSA agents to prevent it.
How quickly history is forgotten.
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Paul_cz: I am of the opinion that asshole who hurts/kills others deserves to be hurt/killed.

And that goes both for Osama as well as world's military/politicians.
That's nice and all and it would make me understand it, however there is no hard evidence of Osama orchestrating the attacks.

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nondeplumage: And perspective takes a leaping dive out the window of a tall building.
Really? Wanting to kill someone isn't as bad as he killing? You do know why eye for eye system just doesn't work, right?
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babby: http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/09/71743

Americans are six times as likely to die from the flu than terrorism. But you won't see us spending a trillion dollars on flu prevention or allowing ourselves to be molested by TSA agents to prevent it.
Not much of an argument, you could say that about anything. Is US spending a horrid mess? Yes, no argument.
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Fenixp: Wow... A human being, while very devious, have died, and you all celebrate it like it was the best thing that could have happened in the world. That is just as sick as ordering a plane to crash into a building.

Just remember what Tolkien wrote: “Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.”
I agree with you (except maybe the 'just as sick as ordering a plane to crash' thing). I can't understand how the assassination of someone by the military can be an event to rejoice upon. He should have been captured and judged properly by an international trial. Sending in a superior force to take him down when he's not protected enough is a bit of a cowardly attitude.

I guess it's a cultural thing, but the death penalty is a big no-no in the social circles that I've grown in, and I really don't understand this whole 'an eye for an eye' philosophy. For me, a proper trial is much more efficient in discouraging other people to do the same awful things.
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Tulivu: Not much of an argument, you could say that about anything. Is US spending a horrid mess? Yes, no argument.
I'm just saying we're spending a disproportionate amount of attention and sacrificing a disproportionate amount of lives on something that, in perspective, is a rare occurrence killing a (relatively) trivial amount of people.
Post edited May 02, 2011 by babby
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Tulivu: Not much of an argument, you could say that about anything. Is US spending a horrid mess? Yes, no argument.
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babby: I'm just saying we're spending a disproportionate amount of attention and sacrificing a disproportionate amount of lives on something that, in perspective, is a rare occurrence killing a (relatively) trivial amount of people.
I'd be careful with "trivial" but I have no clue as to the why's of the war. I'm sure we could do w/ out. Of course now we're in Libya so no lesson learned there.
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Fenixp: Wow... A human being, while very devious, have died, and you all celebrate it like it was the best thing that could have happened in the world. That is just as sick as ordering a plane to crash into a building.
But...but he was the devil incarnate. He dared to attack teh Americuh!!!one!1

On a more serious note, with Osama being dead, I think that the US government will gladly find some other scarecrow to keep those anti-terrorism bullshit countermeasures.
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Tulivu: Almost makes feel bad about my little giveaway... nope. A lot of people disagree but I am comfortable with killing a murderer who would kill my family if given the chance.
Now what makes you so sure he IS the murderer that would kill your family if given the chance? Without fair trial, NOTHING at all. He was really conveniently killed instead of captured, and if you think mentality of putting raw power above human rights is right, you don't really have any insight about what is good for your family, for it is really easy to accuse someone of something and just drag more and more people with it. What if a member of your family wouldn't do something and he'd get killed for it? Would that make you happy? And how would whole country rejoicing about it make you feel?
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Tulivu: Almost makes feel bad about my little giveaway... nope. A lot of people disagree but I am comfortable with killing a murderer who would kill my family if given the chance.
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Fenixp: Now what makes you so sure he IS the murderer that would kill your family if given the chance? Without fair trial, NOTHING at all. He was really conveniently killed instead of captured, and if you think mentality of putting raw power above human rights is right, you don't really have any insight about what is good for your family, for it is really easy to accuse someone of something and just drag more and more people with it. What if a member of your family wouldn't do something and he'd get killed for it? Would that make you happy? And how would whole country rejoicing about it make you feel?
You're right I have no video evidence of him admitting to mass murder. If only US forces had to fight through armed militia to get to him then I might have an argument. If only he had publicly declared war on all Americans. You know I thought I saw a video once, but it was probably Obama in a beard.
Post edited May 02, 2011 by Tulivu
My 2 cents to that matter.

AMERICA FUCK YEAH, MOTHERFUCKER DESERVES IT

Greez from Germany
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Tulivu: You're right I have no video evidence of him admitting to mass murder. If only US forces had to fight through armed militia to get to him then I might have an argument.
That is not the point. First of all, Americans were attacking, Taliban and Al-Qaeda defending. I'm not talking about agenda or anything, that is a statement based on what happened. Of course they fought back, what the heck did you expect them to do against armed aggression?

Second of all, every human being deserves a fair trial before being sentenced. What happened there was an assassination. I do not, for one, want to live in a world where a person can get killed with no trial and no consequences - and that applies to the variety of wars US is going for as well.

Edit: One blurry video is hardly any kind of evidence now is it? It could have been forged so easily - and whoever did it would surely find it convenient that americans attacked Al-Qaeda, don't you think?
Post edited May 02, 2011 by Fenixp
I recall a story that the CIA had the chance to take out Osama a LONG time ago....but the team they had in place couldn't get approval for the assassination. We're talking Clinton era IIRC. Might have just been a bullshit fluff story made up by a CIA-retiree whose pension wasn't enough so he made up shit to sell to the news, but you never know.

Now, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I think Obama has the election in the bag. I'm not saying he planned this to be re-elected, I'm just saying its golden material to show hes strong on terror AND bragging rights to say "I authorized the hunt for him etc etc etc".

That is unless Trump takes credit for it.

@Fenixxp I recall Osama saying he would never allow himself to be captured. US forces aren't going to risk lives just to capture him alive, they are going to kill him if he won't surrender.
Post edited May 02, 2011 by Wraith
That is not the point. First of all, Americans were attacking, Taliban and Al-Qaeda defending. I'm not talking about agenda or anything, that is a statement based on what happened. Of course they fought back, what the heck did you expect them to do against armed aggression?


1. Directly killing 2000 civilians is not "fighting back"


Second of all, every human being deserves a fair trial before being sentenced. What happened there was an assassination. I do not, for one, want to live in a world where a person can get killed with no trial and no consequences - and that applies to the variety of wars US is going for as well.

2. 10 years on the run and he's going to hand himself in for trial?

Edit: One blurry video is hardly any kind of evidence now is it? It could have been forged so easily - and whoever did it would surely find it convenient that americans attacked Al-Qaeda, don't you think?

3. Wow, 10 years and we had Al-Qaeda all wrong from a few bad vids. As someone who has seen the Al-Qaeda run poppy fields and broken farmers, they are not a charitable organization.
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Fenixp: Second of all, every human being deserves a fair trial before being sentenced. What happened there was an assassination. I do not, for one, want to live in a world where a person can get killed with no trial and no consequences - and that applies to the variety of wars US is going for as well.

Edit: One blurry video is hardly any kind of evidence now is it? It could have been forged so easily - and whoever did it would surely find it convenient that americans attacked Al-Qaeda, don't you think?
It was much more than one blurry video. He sent out several tapes over the years, not just the one taking credit for September 11, instigating violence towards Israel and the U.S. (heck, against pretty much all Christians and Jews, really). This tapes were vetted not by Western media outlets, but by the outlet they were delivered to in Qatar (Al Jazeera maybe, I really can't remember). Neither he nor ANY of his family ever tried to even attempt to dissuade anyone that he was the mastermind behind the World Trade Center attack OR that he was the person on any of the subsequent attacks. No, sorry, he was guilty, he admitted as much several times over.

The only thing a trial would do is cost the American taxpayer money and possibly drag the U.S.'s name through the mud. These are two things that I have been getting a bit tired of lately (even if we do deserve the latter for some of our past actions, it gets old). So... yeah... I am firmly in the 'face-shoot the fucker' camp.