1. It is "just presented" as you say just this one time, but with reinforcement from various intentional and unintentional sources over time it can become normal to the child/person and possibly considered ok.

2. Children's minds are more malleable though, and subtle little things can add up over time to shape their way of viewing the world or things in it...does it mean it will happen in all cases? No, but if it can happen and the emotion/view being pushed is a bad one then it's not a good idea to push it imo.

3. This wasn't in a neutral context though imo(We're the children instructed on the context of each question beforehand?), and one of the questions(about beatings) would be considered by many americans to be a bad one to put on such a test, even as part of a cross-curriculum lesson plan.

4. I know you're "wise" on many subjects but please, try to hear me out just this once if at all possible. ;)

5. Dwelling on it(slavery/etc) for the wrong reasons(to gain power over people or for some other bad purpose) is a bad idea but allowing ourselves to get pushed back a notch on the way we view making light of slavery would be a bad thing imo.

6. Children(especially young children 8 or below, and especially those in America/US) are very impressionable and can be more easily swayed to believe a certain way. And also that one event like this might not shape their views but over time multiple such events could and preventing this if we can is a good thing rather than a bad one IMO.

And no.....not everyone knows slavery is bad, or doesn't believe such....and such people can be an influence(intentionally or accidentally) on our youth.

7. As I said above it's little things adding up on top of other things that shape our way of viewing the world, and yes this might not shape their way of viewing slavery but it might add to the likelihood of something else along the line shaping their minds that way.

And OT but hear me out for a minute....I know you're "wise" and all on many subjects(as I said above), but it seems you're not taking what I have to say here very seriously(beyond a cursory passing thought anyways). I dunno if it's because of the way I usually "debate" here or what(Usually with poor wording due to me not being such a good speaker sometimes) or how you view the issue of how slavery is handled in the US in general, but you DO know that to be open minded you have to be willing to at least consider the opposition's POV, right? :\

You realize there's a lot of people in the US intent on doing real and actual harm to others and one of the things they do is proselytize their racist views, right? We have a pretty serious bigotry problem here, there are people who really did wish the South won, don't think anyone with the wrong color skin is human, with the KKK still lynched people, etc. And they spend a lot of time promoting their views to others. You can split hairs all you want about where the line lies with "actual harm" but that shit simply doesn't belong in school.

I've seen a lot of math questions over the years and never have I seen one with such poor taste.

Agreed. I mean teaching kids about slavery and how it affected the country(and how it was bad obviously) is one thing. Pushing racial views under the guise of a math question related to the current history curriculum is another, though.

Another link to article on ABC News now.......

link

""This outrages me because it just lets me know that there's still racists," said Stephanie Jones, whose child is a student at the school.
"Something like that shouldn't be imbedded into a kid of the third, fourth, fifth, any grade," parent Terrance Barnett told WSB-TV. "I'm having to explain to my 8-year-old why slavery or slaves or beatings are in a math problem. That hurts.""

This is brilliant.
I was in Japan over Christmas and since my Japanese isn't good enough yet, I had to resort to the only channel in English - CNN. And it made me wonder: "Am I watching a newscast, or is this Brass Eye?"

No, you're getting the wrong impression - whenever considering an issue, I take all arguments into consideration, no matter who I'm discussing it with. Furthermore - I consider arguments against what I'm saying that haven't even been brought up - that's intellectual honesty.
The arguments against what I've said are usually of the slippery slope variety: "If more extreme (...)", "If other sources (...)". I know - in the wrong hands everything can be dangerous but... fine.
If you guys think it's more important to be... subtle about such issues and handle them in a delicate manner - so be it.
I still believe children are a lot smarter than most people think and wouldn't be negatively affected but that's hard to verify, isn't it ?

The problem is that this isn't an issue that fits the normal philosophical debate canon. Ultimately you're talking about very real children that are dealing with very real damage. It doesn't matter whether or not you're correct from a philosophical angle, it's very well established that this sort of soft racism is damaging.

And for your information, children that age are definitely not equipped to understand the implications of that without help from a supportive parent. I know I personally believed all sorts of racist things at that age because I'd come across them in the media when my parents weren't around to explain it to me. Most notably the "Chinese milk" which wasn't so much Chinese as red and whole milk rather than reduced fat. I can only imagine what impact that had on the Chinese students to have people avoiding something just because it was labelled "Chinese" and was therefore bad.

Ultimately, we need some reason to believe that this time it really is different that for some reason this instance really is different from the myriad other times when some subtle racism/homophobia/sexism or what have you is snuck in when nobody is looking.

1. Thanks for that.

2. It's not a slippery slope if it does happen(new generations being badly influenced by such small things over time). And believe me it does. Why do you think racist thought persists on such a level in this country of mine?

Also fine? Well that's no fun. You didn't even counter debate the points I made above.

3. So you're basically saying that you don't believe children's minds are easily shaped when they are young by what they see and experience as they grow up? Also saying all(or most) children(basically) are smart enough to realize they're being duped at such a young age is a gross generalization.

And it's easy enough to verify if you quiz the average youths(between the ages of 15-20ish) today in the US about how they view minorities. If allowed to speak candidly without consequence you'd be amazed what they'd tell you.

(And if you want further views on this issue on my side of the spectrum, well several here have voiced similar views and much more eloquently than me.....and many of them made very good points imo.)

Frederick Douglas?

Not really. I guess I've been giving Americans (and humanity in general) too much credit :\.
Thanks for pointing that out, I'm used to treating evil as anecdotal, rather than real...

No, it still is A slippery slope, it's simply not THE "slippery slope fallacy". I guess I should've worded it better, knowing that people usually conflate the two...

Not as MUCH as people give it credit, no.

That's why I'm not saying that. I do think, however, that plenty of children at different ages are probably smarter than adults give them credit for. That is: children aren't stupid, they're children.

1. Ok then.

2. Well come check out american kids living in poorer neighborhoods and you'll see that what applies in some areas of the world doesn't always apply everywhere else....even if we wish it did. :\

3. I didn't say they were stupid, just easily molded at a young age(8 or lower)......not easily molded their entire life, or in all cases. It is sort of the norm in many parts of the US though, or it seems that way.

Because white liberals and a part of the black community won't let it die? Sure there are actual racists, but do the whiteknighters and black crusaders do anything but damage race relations most of the time? Baseless accusations like those against Resident Evil 5 desensitize us to actual racial problems and incite more racial friction.

Now this issue of test questions seems rather... bizarre. Perhaps there's more to it. For example, perhaps the question about beatings was *meant* to worry the children and incite them to ask whether slaves where actually beaten, thus leading the children to conclude that slavery is immoral themselves.

Or perhaps the teacher is a racist f***er.

Either way, I don't trust our media to accurately report on the issue.

I agree that some won't let it die and they have earned my ire many times over the years, but there are many true racists out there sadly.

Also the beatings question....how are the kids to know the beatings are wrong if they weren't given the proper context beforehand? I'm guessing they weren't. Also IMO(as I said many times before) I don't think we should be asking 8 year olds about beatings in such a context.

As for the media, well several sites are reporting on it, now on both sides of the aisle. At the least the teachers made a big mistake. At the worst yeah, they're racist sobs.

I think this has reached a point where we can proceed no further. Nothing anyone says is going to change the other sides mind in this. And like the Republicans and Democrats of the US government we are all too stubborn to compromise. LOLOLOLOLOLOL111

It has nothing to do with white liberals and the black community. That racism is very real whether or not you notice it. The point is that questions like that are placed there with the intention of social control.

It might not be obvious to you where you stand, but I've spent enough time with black friends over the years that it's painfully obvious why people use examples like that. It's one of social control and it's an effort to keep people in line. It's fundamentally no different from things like DOMA and DADT that are there to keep sexual minorities in their place or from the opposition to abortion and birth control that keeps women subservient to men.

Personally, I've found Occam's Razor to be quite helpful in cases like this and the simplest explanation with the fewest parts would be that the teacher is racist. At very least the teacher isn't particularly understanding of the needs of the students if he or she is using an example like that. It's hardly a stretch to go from racially insensitive to racist.

When all is said and done this is exactly what racism in the 21st century looks like. It's gone largely underground and has been toned down so that decent folks like you don't have to recognize it. Whether your racist or just naive isn't something which I'm really in a position to judge, but neither possibility is constructive in rooting out racism in the future.
There shouldn't be any compromising on some issues. I personally won't be happy with any compromise that doesn't involve racists and other types of bigots packing it in and giving up. Racism, sexism and such exist purely because good men and women allow it to exist. The more people of various types and colors decry it the harder it is for those hardcore bigots to make progress spreading their hateful beliefs.

This is a struggle that can be won, but only if we prevent it from being spread to the next generation and if people who have no direct benefit say no. I personally don't stand to benefit from racism being eliminated, but I believe very strongly that it needs to go anyways.

I just threw that one in as the lead in to that joke. The compromise in question was one of those agree to disagree type of deals. I was just putting that in as I feel further debate wouldn't really accomplish anything else here.