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pseudonarne: what I meant was the physical part of it (that makes it an actual crime in many people's eyes vs piracy) isn't really anything more than the distribution its basically nothing. The real product I'd be charged with stealing if I took a cd is the same item that piracy takes so how is it really any different? (A movie on dvd and a movie on cd are the same movie(even if it costs different because who can use or would want the vcr one) and its still that movie when it isn't on anything.)
i don't think I'm explaining what i meant well at all...meh it isn't that important anyway

Besides even if I did I'd be waiting my time cause this is the internet and a gaming site whats worse so even if I were clear and articulate people'd just respond with idiocy like
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Darkcloud: Cutting of a arm and slapping someone on his arm should be punished the same way because both things hurt the arm.
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pseudonarne: you can't copy a painting or put your name on somebody else's book because you'e "Stealing their words" but copying a game is cool cause its not like that took time and work to do. A painting has a physical existence but for software copies are all you have. And if you make software its only value is selling copies. If people take them and try to dodge loopholes about weather its theft you have nothing left to sell so they've stolen that from you.
edit- merged reply into this one so I don't double post.


edit-you can't ninja in a pirate thread or you'll summon a bacon robot or something and nobody wants that
Where did I say its ok? I just said the severity is much different. If I steal the game the result is that I won't buy it because I already have it and nobody else can buy that copy because I have it now. If I pirate it it will only be unlikely that I will buy it because I already have it but there is no copy lost that someone else could buy.

And people would copy pictures or books as much as they wan't if you can just download them from the internet. Actually you can do that with both but the difference is that people value the physical products more because recreating them isn't easy.

In fact you have people that copy (parts) of books or song texts that now get told they shouldn't do that. Universitys and Schools got told that it is not okay to just copy parts of books for their Students. Kindergardens got told that it is not okay to copy text sheets from copyrighted songs they want to sign together with parents. They did not see anything wrong in this. Now you might say its for educational purposes so its okay but that would mean if you create a work for educational purposes it is okay to not get paid for it.

So why do people say piracy is okay while stealing is not?
Because when you steal there is direct damage to the person you stole from and indirect damage to the creator because you might not buy the product. In the case of piracy there is only the indirect damage.

If you ask someone why he doesn't just steal the book from his neighbor most people will say because "I don't wan't to take his book, it belongs to him and taking it away from him would be wrong". There will be very few that will tell you "Because if I steal it the creator of the book won't be compensated for his work".
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Nroug7: .
people don't like the whole "one set of laws for the billionaires and another for the rest of us" Thats a big thing people tend to say is bad right? :) )
Post edited December 18, 2012 by pseudonarne
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Thunderstone: Piracy: http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/business-english/internet-piracy
"the practice of using the internet to illegally copy software and pass it on to other people"

There is a difference between the two
so the other person who is downloading is not doing piracy, he is simply collecting information ...lol
349 games on steam, some 90 GoG, dunno how many in shelf and not going to count. Books, music, movies...no i will not count.

So in short, no i am not too worried + I have and I am spending way too much money on entertainment as it is.

I have had my "Yarrr harr" -days in the past, but I think ive been decent customer for the industry since getting my hands on monthly salary.
It shouldn't be a legal issue at all. You can be anti-piracy and try to reason why you are, that's fine. I'm anti-drug but I don't support the War on Drugs, mainly because it just makes matters worse and people would be able to get much better help without it.
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Nroug7: .
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pseudonarne: people don't like the whole "one set of laws for the billionaires and another for the rest of us" Thats a big thing people tend to say is bad right? :) )
I like to call it scalable punishment, and no, it's not a bad thing.

In a case like this, it really isn't fair if parents get slapped with a 20 million dollar bill if there kids decided to download some stuff of the net, or anyone for that matter. I'm not saying that they should get of lighter then billionaires, but wealthier people have no reason to pirate at all.

HOWEVER.
The punishment should never be outside of the income range, that's just ridiculous. it should be something the person could pay off in 3 years or so without placing their life in an uncomfortable position. You know the worlds gone to hell when people get slammed massive fines over something so small.

Maybe I'm just an idealist, maybe I'm too nice of a guy, I don't support piracy, but i don't wish ill upon those who do commit the act. I won't stand there and say "Hey, you committed the act of piracy, you deserved to have your life crushed"
Have we really become so bound to our ideals, that we would neglect those who ended up in such unfortunate positions because they thought it would be a good idea to download some songs, movies etc. It's a crime, but it's not one people deserve to suffer for all their lives from.

Sometimes, I have to question humanity. I can understand punishing a crime, but making an example out of someone? That's just plain ridiculous. These people deserve the punishment, but they should get much, much smaller fines.

Maybe I hope for to much, But isn't it time we made an example of the punishers next time? If everyone would donate enough to lessen the fine to a point where it should be acceptable for them to pay the fine, that's the kind of thing that would renew my faith in humanity.
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KyleKatarn: It shouldn't be a legal issue at all. You can be anti-piracy and try to reason why you are, that's fine. I'm anti-drug but I don't support the War on Drugs, mainly because it just makes matters worse and people would be able to get much better help without it.
drugs you're hurting you and indirectly whoever the drug runners hurt i guess

copying software you're hurting the people who make software and mostly the legit consumers who have to deal with all the antipirate shit they put on it like drm. and i guess some distribution companies. but certainly not yourself.
Post edited December 18, 2012 by pseudonarne
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pseudonarne: so if the difference is that the store paid to have those 100 copies and when I had them burn one to sell me they paid for it like they had 101....what if I stole my cd from a warehouse where nobody had paid for the lot yet just fresh from the company and left in its place the cd paper and ink to make another physical item to replace it? I'd still get charged for theft and probably littering because I left "garbage" behind.
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amok: you are to focused on the physical aspects. Piracy is dealing with intangibles - there are no physical items changing hands. No item is being taken from anywhere by anyone. The owner always have the same amounts of copies all the times.

(and I did a little ninja edit on my previous post to clarify a little, if it helps.)
How about thinking of digital piracy more along the lines of inflation? No, you are not taking 1 of 100 items, but by making 101 of 100 items you are devaluing all of them. On a large scale, such a devaluation description works since with the larger numbers of pirated versus legal copies you are lowering the incentive to pay full price for any given digital item. This is also why I vastly prefer the current trend of items/DLC provided with legal copies and unavailable used or otherwise instead of draconian DRM. They are providing a value and incentive to buy new without punishing the purchaser in an attempt to stop the criminal.
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KyleKatarn: It shouldn't be a legal issue at all. You can be anti-piracy and try to reason why you are, that's fine. I'm anti-drug but I don't support the War on Drugs, mainly because it just makes matters worse and people would be able to get much better help without it.
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pseudonarne: drugs you're hurting you and indirectly whoever the drug runners hurt i guess

copying software you're hurting the people who make software and mostly the legit consumers who have to deal with all the antipirate shit they put on it like drm. and i guess some distribution companies. but certainly not yourself.
No I'm not hurting people who make software if I copy. I've argued this before and I don't think I'm going to help my understanding of it anymore if I discuss it with you judging by what I've already read. I'll just say that I disagree with what you consider property.