No no no, I'm sorry, but people who're in their 20s or 30s and didn't outgrow videogames DISGUST me !

Didn't I, in the very post you quoted, give an example of something I loved when I was 8 and that I still very much enjoy?

Really? What an enlightened view that is. A view that I imagine nearly every fucking person in the universe shares. Why you feel you have to post this stuff I have no idea.

That is absolutely not what I said in that thread.

The way I see it, there are three possible scenarios:

a) My English isn't good enough to make myself clear.
b) You're deliberately building an army of straw-men.
c) You're a complete and utter idiot.

In any case, you've failed to understand even a single sentence I wrote.

This sounds like sarcasm but if not, please explain why. :)

I like what I like, no matter when it started. And of course I reserve the right to not like things I used to like, simply because I don't anymore.

I've never understood the "It's time to grow up, therefore I can't like this or that anymore" sentiment. If people were a little more concerned about being true to themselves maybe everyone would be a little happier and be a little less resentful toward others.

I'm 43 and I still drool over comics and buy Hot Wheels. I don't know how I ever got a psychology degree and spent years in the Army as a counterintelligence agent. :-)

Ah, Babylon 5. I saw it all the way including all movies and Crusade, for the first time, year ago.
What an amazing, amazing show. Such an awesome story arcs of all characters.
After that I watched Farscape, also loved it.

Now I am playing Mass Effect trilogy, finished the first yesterday, started second today. It is funny how much Bioware ripped of those two (and many others surely), but I still love it.

Mass Effect is certainly influenced by Babylon 5, but mostly it's a case of both series ripping off (and I don't mean for this to sound negative, nothing wrong with a good rip-off) the same sources. Tolkien of course, as well as decades of Space Opera literature.

most of the games i liked when i was a kid, i still like. there are a few though, that i thought were great at the time, but now are totally subpar, like rage of mages. fallout held its oats pretty well. as did ultima underworld.


one thing i'm tired of, is these incredibly hard oldschool games. grimrock is good, i don't mean that, i mean ishar, realms of arkania, strangley not eye of the beholder they hold up well. darklands. etc etc

I'm not a hardcore gamer in the sense that i enjoy a game that is nearly so difficult to the point of being frustrating.

i did however, like deus ex HR, which is very difficult to me, i have to relaod a lot, but its rewarding in the end. and oh so fun.

I think the delicate point is :

Implying that still appreciating childhood stuff is not "arrested development" on the condition that this stuff is "true art" - which may be quite arbitrary (because it's evaluated on too many parameters). I had today a discussion with a friend who happens to re-read Bob Morane novels. I was mentionning how I feared to re-read them not that I have a more critical look. His point is that the novels don't change when he re-reads them : it's him, who change back to the mindset of the time where we were reading them. I don't think it's a wrong thing. You can see it both as dumbing onself down, or going back to some fundamentals. Of course you can try to break things down into their multiple components, but also arbitrarily focus on some and give them importance (the reasons why something was appreciated, versus the reasons why it can't be as much, it's often a matter of perspective and contextualisation - and things don't have to be "real art" as a whole to provide genuine reasons for appreciation).

And yes, there is all the unrelated interconnected things, that are brought back, and play a big indirect role. You should not diss "lower forms" of art, they have their legitimate function. Even if, as Resnais would put it, it's the same old song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGvHkFvW8vc

(We were immobile, silent statues, we were not smiling, the one who smile loses.
You laughed and I won, and so I lived on your lips, you were laughing and I was winning - I would lose you afterwards.
And even though I grew up, even though I would get angry with life
When you would come, into your eyes I would fall, I would become
A child again
We were immobile, unmovable by time
We were undefeatable, we both lost
And even though I grew up, even though I would get angry with life
When you would come, into your eyes I would fall, I would become
A child again)

Needless to say, I still appreciate a lot of things that are not high art, either because they have qualities that better, more "adult", fashionable or pretentious things lack, or simply because they fit better who I was and -necessarily- a large part of what I am. I just distrust those who shield their nostalgia behind "but mine was REAL art" as much as those who are too prone to throw mud at their former selves...
(It's sarcasm. Also, it's posted on GOG.)

I am not really blinded by nostalgia, I like old games and music and movies because they were good to me and see the constantly to this day. Like I finished alone in the dark 1 recently and I thought it was great despite its age.

Interestingly I managed to create a sandbox or a simulation inside my head to enjoy what I enjoyed when I was a kid, and to accept it for what it is. Maybe because I'm open. But that said, I did outgrow certain things. Maybe because of better option. I liked Dune 2 when I was a kid, but now I only enjoy several starting stages. Because there are better that provide same game play, with modern interface (grouping, multiple selecting, way point, etc).

But I still love the dark heart of uukrul, faery tale (even in its cga glory), ultima 6, 7, 8.

The same with TV shows. McGyver, Knight Rider.

Or songs. I bought a lot of evergreen CDs.

I read Watership Down recently for the first time. I suppose it's considered kiddie stuff in the West. I have some non-nice and highly bannable words reserved for whoever "outgrows" Watership Down.

I admit that's a poor example in context - I'd defend Prince Valiant to my death (which doesn't mean that I think it's "deep" or "philosophical" or any other number of buzzwords, I don't at all think art has to be. It should have weight, not necessarily depth), which lead to the "true art" comment. Just couldn't help myself.

I could list dozens... hundreds, maybe, of works that I find childish, stupid, shallow, yet still very much enjoy, as well as things I liked as a kid and still have time for today, without believing them to be "true art".

Now that I would never do. And haven't done. (Come to think of it, I conversely wouldn't say that "high art" has to have a legitimate function.)

I'd say that what he's describing is simply the phenomenon called nostalgia.


I stand by my statement: that refusal to outgrow is a sign of arrested (intellectual, depending on what exactly it is that's about to be outgrown) development, and that it is particularly common in Nerd culture (the first assertion being almost self-evident, the second one controversial, but the result of personal experiences). That that doesn't mean that everything (one liked when being a child or teen/ that doesn't have any "depth"/isn't art/whatever) should be outgrown I thought would go without saying.

I just replayed some Half-life 1 (not Source, nor Black Mesa). I was surprised how low res (fuzzy) most of the textures are, but other than that it still feels nice.

Yesterday I also played a bit of GTA3. While the graphics are crude by today's standards, I was surprised how well the game has held up all these years, even after playing much newer "GTA clones". GTA1-2 still feels just as crappy as always, nothing to do with the graphics except that the overhead view is not suitable for this kind of game. Feels like playing Radar Rat Race.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dzzArqzK4o

I miss how big animals were when you're really young. Horses were fucking MAHOOSIVE when i was like, 6. Now I'm grown up, they're not really that impressive.

Heh, I know what you mean. I used to love big dogs and now they're not as big anymore. ;_;