I miss the Steam/Gog ones.

I say it won't.

Nice post dat.

I will never fathom aversion for discussion of various topics on discussion boards.

Well, I think a distinction could be made between software and art, since software is used and art is appreciated, in Richard Stallman's words. There's id software's model, where they open source, or release the source code of their games under the GPL license, which allows forking, making derivative works and such, but the art assets of the game remain proprietary. This way the games are updated to work on modern computers. There's alternatives out there, it's not just all or nothing with public domain.

There should be more people with a cat in this fight :)
I thought the other one would be lopsided, and look how it kept going... Let's see, let's see ;)

Well, I must admit I created this thread to have something to read during my "mini-pauses" while working on my computer tonight and I've been a little bit impressed how it went so far but yeah, not too many participants/fighters so far and I've got to sleep so that's it for today. Don't forget the "someone is wrong on the internet" meme :o)

This here should be more complicated since we are dealing with real issues on both sides. But it is definitely not as much fun.

To me, the way it should work, basicly is self-explainatory.

What is the public domain? Basicly, property of the public.

You create something = it is your domain. When it stops being yours, it starts being public domain. And when does it stop being yours? When you renounce it or die.

Why should it become public domain, be taken away from me against my own will?

Isnt this an example of lack of respect for one's work? After all, who should be entitled to their work, if not its creator.

RPS: "We done it again, boys! Click... Cha-Ching! Click... Cha-Ching! Click... Cha-Ching!"

Collectively they could only be referred to as 'freeware', because 'public domain' would presuppose that the original rightsholder has waived all intellectual property rights to it. A truly public domain work could be modified and republished to your heart's content. In this particular case, you wouldn't be able to modify the work because it would be a derivative work of a copyrighted work.

According to your example though, Squeenix could certainly make the engine public domain while keeping the assets proprietary or freeware, and people could make games based on that game without repercussions. That wouldn't be an unheard of thing - the same happened to Abuse in 2003 - and if I'm brutally honest, it was an ingenious move (and at the time revolutionary) that made the difference between it being a popular Linux title and it being a forgotten and obscure run and gun game.

I think I am confused on this subject, as I am typically confused on copyrights in the first place. If a person creates something it should belong to the person. If someone else is inspired and makes something else, that's awesome! But the original creation should belong to the original creator or to whomever he/she sold the creation to.

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For instance:

I make things out of metal, specifically I make jewelry out of silver.

Now say I make a pin out of silver, it's a very pretty pin, all flowing metal, looks almost organic, it has an Art Nouveau kind of flair, etc. I shape the wax, I cast the metal, I polish, I have taken an idea rattling around in my skull and produced a piece of wearable art out of it. The pin has no utilitarian nature, it is made purely for aesthetics. One cannot deny that I have been influenced by things I've seen in nature, in other people's art, in my own work, etc. Yet the fact remains I have made this object. I have this pin, I can rent the pin for other people to wear, I can sell the pin so it belongs to someone else and I have no further claim on it, yet I would be extremely pissed off if someone broke into my house and stole my pin twenty years down the road because they wanted to wear it without my permission. I made it, it is mine. In twenty years pins will probably have fallen completely out of fashion, and yet it still belongs to me. When I die, if I haven't sold it to someone else, it belongs to my children. If someone else wants to make their own pin, power to them, I recommend PMC (Precious Metal Clay) and a blow torch.

I never really understood how books, movies, music, videos games, etc, differed. If someone saw the pin and wanted to make their own in a similar style, neat! In the same way if someone reads a book and is inspired to write a book in a similar style, cool! They can make their own and keep it or sell it as they choose. But why would a video game suddenly no longer belong to the people who made it? How does that help anything?

As to modding, I imagine that would be akin to if I made a cast out of the pin, and made a whole run of it. And then I sold those 50 pins to other people. And then they decided to add rhinestones, or glitter, or file off sections, or whatever. So what? I've sold them a copy, they can do what they please with it, I have no further say on the one that belongs to them. They just can't break into my house and melt copper all over the remaining pins on my workbench.

So I guess it kind of boils down to a problem of am I selling the copy of a pin to someone, or am I renting it. Because if I rented a piece of jewelry to a person and they altered it I would be very unhappy when getting it back, but if I sold it then I have no say in what they do with it. But then if they made direct-cast copies of the pin and sold those, then I would? Because that is a design I created and not one of theirs? But I wouldn't have a claim to it, because they made them? But I would be very angry if people thought I copied their design and not the other way around. So credit to the original creator is necessary somehow.

I'm sorry, I'm just trying to shake this all out in my brain, I've never really given it much dedicated thought.

Anyway, I'm so glad the majority here have such a strong work ethic.

Since it seems to be the accepted fashion here, I think I'll go to work for the next month and then demand that I be paid for that month's work for the next 75 years while I sit back and do nothing. After all, I deserve to eat and have a roof over my head, don't I?

I wonder how pissed those people would be if they realized there use to be a time before copyright, when artists would get paid ONCE for their work, hand it over, and have to make something else.

It's no different now really. The vast majority of creative enterprises are conducted by people who never see money beyond the initial one-time payment. They don't benefit from copyright laws; they're just commissioned or employed to create.

My sarcasm above is a little closer to home than you might expect, because theoretically I own the copyright to the translations and localisations I produce, but the contract for EVERY job I do forces me to cede copyright to these works to the client.

I find it somehow fitting that the two to most vocally complain about what RPS wrote would be Georges Broussard and Cliff Bleszinski, two 'developers' who have produced next to fuck-all of note in recent years and simply live off the proceeds of legacy works. They're not interested in seeing developers succeed - they're just selfish bastards worried about having to move their ass and actually work for a living.

I'm a bit disappointed to see such a discussion on GOG. In places where 14-year old torrenters run around, I'd expect this to happen... but here with so many experienced and matured people, why?

As someone who has no other income than what I can make from creative work, I see things quite straightforward: You're talking about the very food on my table.

The first people to suffer from eroding creative property rights aren't big companies like EA, it's little small-timers like me (who, despite being unknown, has had work stolen and used for commercial purposes on several occasions). Sure, I'm not making the games you play so there's no need for you to care but I still gotta eat to survive.

Please accept my sincere apologies if this comes across as berating talk, I just don't know how else to put it.