So I tried out Far Cry 3 today,

It has a lot of things I like: crafting, experience, weapons, cool graphics, different possible approaches for example.
Now the protagonist is a bit of a douche, but well, you can't always have a Lone Wanderer, Vault Dweller or egomanic superhero with a foul mouth full of beautiful one liners as character.
That just was a minor problem and the graphics really look awesome, so I can tolerate playing as a schmuck gone warrior.

So what happened at the Tutorial?
You can't save, the game does that for you... Hmmm, it seems they really think I am that retarded that I can't handle save games, okay...

So I finished the Tutorial "liberating" one of those outposts under the command of some natives who are exploiting other natives. Well... ah no I'm not going into storyline issues.

Then the information screen tells that I get a bonus if I remain undected during this "liberation"

AFTER the mission has been ended and the Auto-save kicked in so I couldn't try the mission again.
How Nice of you my dear game. Why do hate me that much?
Great, whatever, since I wanted to do some stealth I thought this is good way of learning how things work, so I started a new game.
Naturally, I HAD to do they entire Tutorial again to reach that mission part. No skipping cutscene, no saving, no "I know this game please let me go on" button.
I reached the last past, this time liberating the outpost silently. In the end a dog -left alone among corpses- was able to raise the alarm - thus ruining my stealth bonus - because of his superhuman senses, as he was able not only to hear and attack me but to warn the ghosts of the butchered enemies I left in the dirt.

"Great job Far Cry 3" I said to myself - "you owe 1000 extra xp for that."
I will look for a cheat code that will give me that 1000xp back, later...

Mildy offended, I picked up a sniper rifle and wanted to explore the jungle and hunt me some wild animals.
But as I walked through the jungle my douche character waves his rifle in front of him blocking his own view. How can I enjoy the beautiful resolution and detailed art of the wonderfully rendered jungle scenery when all I see is this stupid sniper rifle?
"No you can't holster it, you are too dumb to have a holster key, you might accidentially swallow it and choke on it.

Yes, we automatically holster the weapon the moment we enter a safe-zone but no you can't do that."

So I took the remaining user controlled freedom I was able to retain and disinstalled the game while writing this little post here.

So why do modern games try so desperately hard to give meaningful choices to the player but utterly fail to give the player real meaningful meta-game control choices like skipping tutorials and holstering weapons?

I'd give it another chance. The game has some annoying aspects but once you get going with it hunting animals in the brush and stealthily liberating outposts is extremely fun. The main missions are kind of a drag but worth putting up with, in my opinion.

Oh and I am 99% sure it has quicksave.

I suggest not playing it like a sandbox FPS.

It's an open world game, so you have a reasonable amount of freedom, but there are still boundaries in that you can't leave mission areas when a mission is active, you can't just take out your guns in a populated area, and you can't save at certain points because it prevents save scumming etc.

But I agree, I don't understand why there wasn't a holster option, but whatever- it never prevented me from enjoying the game.

As for saving, iirc, you could save manually except at certain points, but the game has auto and quick saves, so plenty of options to go back in time, if you wish.

Was an awesome game, really.

I cant agree with anything you said. All I see is user error.. for the exception of weapon holstering it is quite stupid that they do not have it.

Have had it for a while and to be honest, i kinda like it. Following bits of the story slowly (i actually dislike open world games.....) .Not a bad game (on Uplay!!) :)

Fixed saves vs. Quicksaves conflict is not really Far Cry 3's fault you know. It's been around for ages, and none of the Far Cry series really have it - in PC only 1, it was doable via console but you were running a risk of breaking the game. In Far Cry 2, it's been added for PC version thankfully. Not so in 3rd game. Storyline's supposed to be dumb. It's actually one of the strengths of the game. But hey, if you want to hate on something, you inevitably will... There's a button to reset checkpoints in the menu. You mean as opposed to all the other FPS games which let you holster your weapon? Oh, right... Heh, modern games? Do tell me when was the last time you could holster your weapon in Doom. Or, better yet, when you could get a bow, stand on a boat and hunt sharks in Doom. You couldn't? Oh yeah, you're right, you couldn't, because it was a relatively linear FPS. Vast majority of FPS games in history gave you far less options at any given time than Far Cry 3, yet you're complaining about user freedom? If it were some linear FPS I wouldn't say a thing, but right here you're barking up the wrong tree.

Good points, all.

The only thing I was going to disagree on was the holster issue, but now that I think about it, you're right- I don't remember holstering in other FPS games. I guess the thing with FC3 is that it makes you believe it's more than a simple FPS, so you expect more, which is awesome!

I guess the reason why devs don't put holster in FPS games is because there's not much utility in being able to do it- what are you going do, walk around bare armed till you eventually have to draw again? Kind of pointless in a game where the gameplay revolves around combat.

Pretty much, yes. Besides, by introducing such features you are always running a risk of people accidentaly pressing whatever is bound to weapon holster and hiding it mid-combat, which would just be frustrating - and before anyone brings up a "don't be stupid" argument, everybody makes mistakes sometime. Point is, since such a feature would be completely pointless for the game itself as it's primarily a shooter, introducing this small frustration is unnecessary.

Good points on open world not meaning it's Skyrim. Good to keep that in mind.

I think honestly with a shooter I prefer the Crysis or Original Far Cry method of having large, open feeling levels rather than one big open world. Crysis is the perfect blend of open world and linear levels, in my opinion.

Please be so kind to explain to me what kind of user error I committed when I wasn't able to skip the intro cinematic or any other form of dialogue I encountered in the game.
And what kind of user error is to shoot the dog last to avoid any alarm/detection?
I wonder how a dog could raise an alarm when everybody is dead already. It's probably my fault for thinking that.
Next time I have to grenade that dog to his own dog hell to get the 1000xp for not alerting anyone. That is the normal thing to do. Do I have to know that in advance when I play the game? Yes, but you can't use it during mission (the tutorial is treated as mission) which is fine by me. The checkpoints are well placed but at least let me repeat a specific checkpoint. Thank you! That's good news, I have to check that out next time I install that. Where is it? I was too blind to find it. Sorry but you are preaching to choir. I love the in game choices and freedom Far Cry 3 has to offer. What I can't understand is how they lack the user control interface freedom on the other hand. A game that realizes that the freedom of the player is important should grant the player the possiblity to skip an intro scene or dialogue.
Imagine you play Skyrim but aren't allowed to switch resolution (because of a console port for example) or you can't change the key bindings. That is an extreme example but for me freedom of choice inside the game and with the game commands/controls goes hand in hand. I don't know you, but when I'm crawling through the woodwork of a jungle in an almost untamed island full of wild poisonous animals I rather have my hands free or at least clutching a machete than holding a rather heavy Sniper Rifle/Bazooka/RPG/Light Machine Gun in front of me with both of my hands. Sorry, what is so bad about pushing the reload button for more than 2 seconds in order to holster your weapon, I think that minimizes the chances that someone pushes it by accident. Was the best implementation I ever experience playing games. Never happened by accident and I am one of those people with butter fingers who has difficulties doing even the simplest of combos in Mortal Combat because I am unable to press the right buttons in the right order.

Thanks, this has been on my wishlist for a while, and aside from the no holster button, your 'complaint' actually makes me want to check it out even more.

You can totally have a machete in FC3, it kind of a staple of the FC series ^^

http://farcry.wikia.com/wiki/Machete

But do read the comments on the wiki about it.

Like Far Cry 2 or Stalker Clear Sky or Stalker Call of Pripyat (each of which allow holstering weapons anytime). I am sure there are plenty more, but those are three I've played just recently so I don't have to remember if they have it or not.

These aren't the "mindless shooters" FPS's, and holstering allows a player to RP a bit. It should be in these games as it adds to the immersiveness. In "mindless shooters" (like Serious Sam), holstering isn't missed. I would think that Far Cry 3 would be more in the list of FPS' that aren't "mindless" and in which some RP fits right in, but perhaps not.

"Modern" games are getting just too dumbed down for my enjoyment. Far Cry 3 might fall into that category. Hopefully not. But the attitude that certain things aren't strictly needed so are out is one of the reasons why the publishers aren't getting my $60-a-pop for that garbage.

Haha. That exactly how I felt!

I got FarCry 2 hoping it would be awesome and it annoyed the tar out of me. I actually enjoyed the gun-jamming and the nice long drives. I just didn't like the odd random bullet that made you take a nice long drive 23 times.

I've heard from lots of folks that FC3 is fantastic.

It's... Well, it's hidden somewhere in the menu, and it always respawns ALL checkpoints. I did find myself doing that a couple of times tho, either to grind some XP or just to repeat a cool capture.

When it comes to fixed saves vs. checkpoints, I'm right there with ya. However, for whatever reason some designers think that checkpoints are good design, even today, where fixed saves can work very well on consoles. I don't agree with them, but... It's not specifically an issue of Far Cry 3 is what I'm saying.

Well that's the thing, Far Cry 3 is not supposed to be immersive. It's a game where you run around and shoot stuff with guns - ergo, hiding the guns serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever. Putting one in-game and creating systems which would properly react to it is a waste of time and resources which can be used elsewhere. It's usually not as simple as 'Press button, do what you do in town' kind of deal most of the time, things tend to be far more complicated than that - just as player expectations of how does Player Character reacts to situations where he has a gun holstered and needs to use it / doesn't and needs to holster it. It might seem like a small thing, but to put together a game as polished as Far Cry 3, you need to carefully think about which small things you do and which small things you don't spend your resources on. And if it's pointless, you're better off doing something else entirely.

You actually can't holster a weapon in Far Cry 2. There really aren't plenty more, the games which do allow for weapon holstering usually come with very strong RPG or stealth element - you know, games where doing so actually makes sense.

The attitude that what's not strictly needed is taken out is a good practice, plain and simple, and always has been around. That old games have more pointless or broken mechanics than new games is not exactly a shining commendation, it's an issue with basic quality assurance.

Funny that you say that about shooters. In terms of basic shooting mechanics? Sure, some older games still hold up very well. In terms of complexity and player involvement? Modern FPS games absolutely devour the older ones. Yes, there used to be complex FPS in the past - there's just more of them now.