It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
From what I understand at present time GOG will offer the DOS version of a game instead of the windows 3.x/9x because DOS games can be emulated with Dosbox and early windows games would require to be individually patched. The irony is that many of those games that can no longer work under windows do work under WINE (for linux or osx). At the present time wine for windows has never reached been completed (it does not compile at present time). It would be egoistical to say "GOG should pay from their pocket some programers to complete wine4windows" since wine is open source and anybody (including GOG competitors) might use it to offer games that are otherwise unplayable on modern windos. But if GOG made a kickstarter (or indiegogo) campaign to pay for said project then they would not have to pay a pretty penny. The end results would be:

1. GOG could expand their catalog with early windows games
2. WINE would improve due to the sudden influx of new "apps" to test
3. Window gamers could run games from the early windows period.

Someone might say "Why don't you start such a kickstarter? anyone can make a kickstarter!". It is true that anyone can make a kickstarter. but TBT you need to be someone somewhat famous for people to invest in your idea, someone people can trust because they know the person/company behind the kickstarter knows how to finish said project.
avatar
mangamuscle: Someone might say "Why don't you start such a kickstarter? anyone can make a kickstarter!". It is true that anyone can make a kickstarter. but TBT you need to be someone somewhat famous for people to invest in your idea, someone people can trust because they know the person/company behind the kickstarter knows how to finish said project.
Famous isn't important, what is important is having somebody who can code and who already has something to show potential backers.
avatar
hedwards: Famous isn't important, what is important is having somebody who can code and who already has something to show potential backers.
And someone who's good enough at convincing people to get over the "why should I pay for something that is free" hurdle (since it seems they generally don't think an open source developer's time is worth anything just because the software if free and open).
http://wiki.winehq.org/WineOnWindows

IMO there are easier ways of going about it, though. Remember on other platforms that wine has to do a lot of emulation that wouldn't be necessary on Windows (e.g. loading PE files, simple APIs that won't need to be emulated, etc).

I'd rather see a more organized and deep effort at emulating and extending old versions of DX and DirectDraw, similar to ddfix. In other words, I don't really think an emulator as extensive as wine is really necessary at this point. You'd get a lot further with less time and fewer people by taking on issues that require attention, rather do redundant work that the operating system and API already do fine.
Post edited February 07, 2013 by Shinook
avatar
Shinook: IMO there are easier ways of going about it, though. Remember on other platforms that wine has to do a lot of emulation that wouldn't be necessary on Windows (e.g. loading PE files, simple APIs that won't need to be emulated, etc).
This reminds me how several years ago many people played DOS games using utilities like slo-mo to slow down unplayable games, I think there were some TSR that emulated sound blaster, etc. Fast forward to the future and no one uses those anymore, it is more comfortable to have a one solution fixes all like Dosbox.

So having a solution like ddfix helps with some games, but other games cease to function on modern windows no because of directdraw/direct3d issues, but because they need older versions of some APIs, maybe they require emulation of irqs to do sound, etc. It will take more time than a quick and dirty solution like ddfix, but IMO Wine for Windows is the only road that will allow users of windows XP/7 to play games made for Windows 3.x/9x
avatar
mangamuscle: This reminds me how several years ago many people played DOS games using utilities like slo-mo to slow down unplayable games
Sorry to interject, are there still good programs for this? Some Windows games of a certain era actually still need this. GOG sometimes uses a program called SetSpeed.exe but they don't package it with all games that need it and I can't figure out how to change the target it links to (also annoying because if you move the game folder after install, the link is broken). I went searching for some programs, but all I could find were seemingly abandoned/somewhat sketchy shareware sites from the old, old days to the programs and the originals no where to be found.
It really would only benefit linux and mac users. No point for windows users (thats most of us).
avatar
nijuu: It really would only benefit linux and mac users. No point for windows users (thats most of us).
how would Wine for Windows benefit linux and mac users? I think the idea is that as Windows moves further from its origins certain games become hard or almost impossible to get running. Some, certainly not all, but some of these older programs actually work better under Wine for Mac and Linux than they do under Windows. The concern is as time goes on, that will only increase. A Wine for Windows for project might solve compatibility issues of old games with future Windows versions.
avatar
nijuu: It really would only benefit linux and mac users. No point for windows users (thats most of us).
avatar
crazy_dave: how would Wine for Windows benefit linux and mac users? I think the idea is that as Windows moves further from its origins certain games become hard or almost impossible to get running. Some, certainly not all, but some of these older programs actually work better under Wine for Mac and Linux than they do under Windows. The concern is as time goes on, that will only increase. A Wine for Windows for project might solve compatibility issues of old games with future Windows versions.
doesnt dosbox etc work properly for windows 8 ? (cant see too many people jumping to that from xp nor 7 - will be a windows OS later down the track)
avatar
nijuu: doesnt dosbox etc work properly for windows 8 ? (cant see too many people jumping to that from xp nor 7 - will be a windows OS later down the track)
Sure but there are games made from the time in between DOS and modern Windows which have a lot of trouble on modern Windows. Sometimes those can be solved with compatibility settings or other tweaks to the game, sometimes not. The concern is that compatibility with older programs is going to be harder and harder for Windows to maintain as it progresses. "Wine for Windows" or other solutions that have been proposed would essentially create a DOSBox-like wrapper for some of these older games to run in them in current and future Windows OS versions. There are other potential solutions beyond Wine, but it is one that people have proposed and might work.
Post edited February 09, 2013 by crazy_dave
avatar
mangamuscle: This reminds me how several years ago many people played DOS games using utilities like slo-mo to slow down unplayable games
avatar
crazy_dave: Sorry to interject, are there still good programs for this?
I think that refers to Mo'Slo and it's still available. According to the page, Mo'Slo 4BIZ slows down both DOS and Windows programs, but it costs $25 and I'd at least want to try it first..
avatar
Shinook: IMO there are easier ways of going about it, though. Remember on other platforms that wine has to do a lot of emulation that wouldn't be necessary on Windows (e.g. loading PE files, simple APIs that won't need to be emulated, etc).
avatar
mangamuscle: This reminds me how several years ago many people played DOS games using utilities like slo-mo to slow down unplayable games, I think there were some TSR that emulated sound blaster, etc. Fast forward to the future and no one uses those anymore, it is more comfortable to have a one solution fixes all like Dosbox.
I'm in the same boat. I feel these partial solutions are just stopgap solutions, like you said trying to slow the CPU down with slow down utilities etc.

Those partial solutions might not work with your next PC or next Windows release (depending how they have changed), while an emulated or virtual environment has a much better changes to work right also in the future. Like DosBox, or running genuine Win98SE in VMWare Player.
avatar
crazy_dave: Sorry to interject, are there still good programs for this? Some Windows games of a certain era actually still need this.
CPUGrapper is used by e.g. the unofficial Interstate'76 launcher that tries to slow down the GOG version of I'76 so that the driving physics and the flamethrower weapons would work correctly too (as they start to bug out somehow with any higher CPU speeds).

http://www.gog.com/forum/interstate_series/updated_new_i76_arsenal_launcher_with_automatic_workarounds_2_versions/page1

There's only so that it can do as well though. With the I'76 Launcher and CPUGrapper, I was able to get those flamethrowers to work correctly on my ancient IBM ThinkPad T41 laptop (so it was slow enough already so that some extra slow down fixed it), but not on my newer PCs IIRC. But it fixes the driving physics though also on more modern PCs, like on my ASUS G75VW.

That example just goes to show that these stopgap solutions, like slowing down the CPU, work differently on different PCs.
Post edited February 09, 2013 by timppu
avatar
crazy_dave: Sorry to interject, are there still good programs for this? Some Windows games of a certain era actually still need this.
avatar
timppu: CPUGrapper is used by e.g. the unofficial Interstate'76 launcher that tries to slow down the GOG version of I'76 so that the driving physics and the flamethrower weapons would work correctly too (as they start to bug out somehow with any higher CPU speeds).

http://www.gog.com/forum/interstate_series/updated_new_i76_arsenal_launcher_with_automatic_workarounds_2_versions/page1

There's only so that it can do as well though. With the I'76 Launcher and CPUGrapper, I was able to get those flamethrowers to work correctly on my ancient IBM ThinkPad T41 laptop (so it was slow enough already so that some extra slow down fixed it), but not on my newer PCs IIRC. But it fixes the driving physics though also on more modern PCs, like on my ASUS G75VW.

That example just goes to show that these stopgap solutions, like slowing down the CPU, work differently on different PCs.
Although, even with a Wine-like program or other type of wrapper, some of these programs are still going to need CPU-rate limiters.

GOG puts SetSpeed.exe with Red Baron 3D, but not Independence War 1. Also this may be a basic Windows question, but my familiarity with windows is not great, but how does one change the target of a program? For instance, at installation SetSpeed.exe is linked to the single player .exe for RB1. But if you move the folder it completely loses its target.

Thanks for the suggestion about CPUgrabber. It sad though - again the only website I found hosting CPUgrabber on was old geocities website. I guess since DOSBox no one is making or updating these things anymore which is a pity because it is not just DOS programs that need a CPU throttle.
avatar
crazy_dave: Sorry to interject, are there still good programs for this?
avatar
Rixasha: I think that refers to Mo'Slo and it's still available. According to the page, Mo'Slo 4BIZ slows down both DOS and Windows programs, but it costs $25 and I'd at least want to try it first..
Yeah also that website doesn't give the impression it's been updated or maintained in a long, long time :)
Post edited February 09, 2013 by crazy_dave