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thegammaray: I'm not sure about this. Isn't the essence of what we've created already intangible? Or, doesn't the main attraction of books/games exist independently of their packaging? I love books for the thoughts they stimulate in my mind, but those thoughts exist only in my mind; they have nothing to do with the physical medium.

Oh, no doubt; I completely agree with you about this. Sure, the essence of the things, especially in the realm of artistry, is in the ability of the text/game/art to conjure in our minds fantastical thoughts, pleasures and interpretations. It is only, I think, that a large part of a game or book, as being a part of a whole, is lost when it is converted to digital only. I'm no ludite, I fully embrace what the future brings, but in this case it's just a potential embrace tinged with sadness.
Think of it this way: a glass of wine. One drinks a glass of wine for the taste, for the sensation it provides. While that can be enough, a significant portion of what is important about wine drinking is lost if only the taste is savoured. The heady aroma, the bouquet, the texture, the viscosity and its tinctured beauty are all parts of a great whole. Sure wine can just be drunk as a liquid, but it is all the more potent, complete and passionate when combined with all of its elements. Perhaps the same can be said about video games and books? At least, this is what I believe. :)
Interesting discussion
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Pythos: Our modern times are presenting us with a great disjuncture between the links of our creations - if all we create remains within the realm of the intangible, well, frankly, we have lost a part of ourselves.

I agree in principal, but I think we have lost this connection a long time ago. We get it back when we go camping, or go to a museum to see actual, created things before they are mediated digitally.
When you're holding box art or a manual, it is one of millions produced mechanically--an artist's brush never touched the thing. So, here, I don't see much difference between having the manual and printing the manual.
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thegammaray: I'm not sure about this. Isn't the essence of what we've created already intangible? Or, doesn't the main attraction of books/games exist independently of their packaging?

I agree with this entirley. the effect in located in the viewer not in the art. However, some media (print, video games) and be reproduced and the effect remains just as potent no mater how many reproductions are made. Others--painting, sculpute, even music, are diluted or altered.
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stonebro: Also, it's not like the existense of GOG is going to make people change their minds about getting that fancy up to date computer.

Good point--GOG does not change behavior, it just allows people who want to breath life into their old machines to do so (like DSL or Puppy Linux). We don't have to, but, if we feel like holding onto old machines because we are green (or cheap), we can.
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lowyhong: True, but a part of me still prefers holding on to physical media. I still have those big boxes of games from the early 90s shelved away under my clothes cabinet.

So do I, and I do not think anything can take away from the nostalgia that comes with some of these--especially the "extras" (not gog extras, but physical extras--comic books, guides, coins, etc). I think the point of the "stuff" video is not that stuff is bad, just that we need more reverence for stuff and we should hold onto and use things rather than put them in land fills. For every gem we hang on to, there are ten crap games. Digital distribution keeps these crap games from becoming literal garbage.
Post edited April 19, 2010 by BrainCandy
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/861108132/m/4241005458
;_;
I enjoyed the old manuals Ubi did. Now they are gone.
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Tantrix: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/861108132/m/4241005458
;_;
I enjoyed the old manuals Ubi did. Now they are gone.

That forum is a good example of why gog does not allow signatures. Most of that page is made up of worthless pictures, I can barely find any discussion.
I'm a bit confused by this point though
'Ubisoft's digital game manuals will provide multiple benefits for the player and the environment. Including the game manual directly in the game will offer the player easier and more intuitive access to game information'
I fail to see how scrolling through virtual pages could be more intuitive than flicking through a paper manual. I have to say not having a paper manual is one thing I miss about GOG. Especially when trying to look up some information on a complex RPG.
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Tantrix: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/861108132/m/4241005458
;_;
I enjoyed the old manuals Ubi did. Now they are gone.
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rewsan: That forum is a good example of why gog does not allow signatures. Most of that page is made up of worthless pictures, I can barely find any discussion.
I'm a bit confused by this point though
'Ubisoft's digital game manuals will provide multiple benefits for the player and the environment. Including the game manual directly in the game will offer the player easier and more intuitive access to game information'
I fail to see how scrolling through virtual pages could be more intuitive than flicking through a paper manual. I have to say not having a paper manual is one thing I miss about GOG. Especially when trying to look up some information on a complex RPG.

I am pretty sure it's just an excuse by the publishers to cut the budget. They seems to have another financial crisis as it seems, so the manuals are being cut short.
It's probably too late in the thread to make some general remarks about that but I find some core points are being misjudged:
The IT industry is the most wasteful industry ever. A lot of the components that are required are poisonous, a cardbox however is not. At least not necessarily.
It's true that the direction is good and probably better but then again you have to remember that gog isn't intended to make old games run on old hardware - it's for running them on new hardware and newer OS's. So the points the thread starter made seem a bit strange to me. Are there really people not buying new pc's because they can get old games from gog?
To me it's the other way round. We're getting new hardware all the time - what happens to the old one? It's certainly unavoidable and thus, like I mentioned, the general direction is okay but books or cardbox packaging is certainly not as agressive as thrown away computers. At least, and I guess I have to repeat that because companies never really cared, packaging could've been very ecological. For example using recycled paper or eco-friendly ink.
Anyhow, I think gog isn't that much about pollution or the re-use of older games. In fact I'd say that if it weren't for gog then maybe some people would do something outside, taking a walk or whatever, instead of sitting in front of their pc's and playing old computer games.
Another sad aspect of what happens these days is that you put effort into re-creating existing products with minimal difference to the original but producing almost the same amount of waste (or energy consumption etc. - gog servers don't run from sunlight I assume...)
But in the end I guess that digital distribution is a great thing. Especially DRM free. GOG does it right and I wish newer titles would be released like that. Others however do it wrong. And that I must make absolutely sure: Steam etc. is NOT an option to me. It's like throwing yourself into digital slavery. Always logged in, spyware client on the system, games bound to the account and very bad backup feature and much more.
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nu-R421: The IT industry is the most wasteful industry ever. A lot of the components that are required are poisonous, a cardbox however is not. At least not necessarily.

Agreed--this is why I think holding on to the computers we have is a good idea.
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nu-R421: It's true that the direction is good and probably better but then again you have to remember that gog isn't intended to make old games run on old hardware - it's for running them on new hardware and newer OS's.

I agree that GOG is probably not doing this to be environmentally conscious. However, regardless of intentions, users can make it so. I can tell you that I have not upgraded my computer in eight years and still can play every GOG game I have purchases flawlessly on it.
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nu-R421: Another sad aspect of what happens these days is that you put effort into re-creating existing products with minimal difference to the original but producing almost the same amount of waste (or energy consumption etc. - gog servers don't run from sunlight I assume...)

If you are refering to movies, books, and television. I couldn't agree more. Originality is rare, and we are spending vast resources recreating the same crap over and over. Thank goodness that GOG is around to delve into the past and pick out the truly creative and unique gems of yesteryear.
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nu-R421: ...DRM free. GOG does it right and I wish newer titles would be released like that. Others however do it wrong. And that I must make absolutely sure: Steam etc. is NOT an option to me. It's like throwing yourself into digital slavery. Always logged in, spyware client on the system, games bound to the account and very bad backup feature and much more.

Amen, bother.
Do you people REALLY care that much about this 'green' crap, seriously? At the end of the day when people get caught up in energy use, the final solution is the extinction of mankind. Who cares there's not packaging, there's still power moving those bytes, and then you burning ever more power to play a game for your sheer entertainment. It is utterly laughable that this green shit has weaseled its way into gamers lives and many of you apparently applaud it, seriously, WTF.
Games themselves are 'wasteful', all of your entertainment 'needs' isn't really needed, so to act like you give a shit because of how a game is made or delivered to you is good for the planet, is an utter joke.
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Skivir:

Uh, wow. It's called responsible consumption. Let's not go all nihilist. It's not a choice between going back to the stone age or saving the planet. I agree that energy has a mostly hidden cost ofwhich we should all be aware, but that does not mean we can never turn on a computer a play a game once in a while. Where I plug in, about half the energy is coming from wind power. It's not all doom and gloom.
Post edited April 19, 2010 by BrainCandy
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BrainCandy: It's not a choice between going back to the stone age or saving the planet.

Have you heard of the "minimalistic" eco-friendly approach ? It's three points:
"1* We shouldn't use up renewable resources faster than they can be renewed.
2* We shouldn't use up non-renewable resources faster than we discover new ones.
3* We shouldn't create more pollution than the ecosystem can neutralize."
As you might have guessed - we break all of those rules. Not doing so would require drastic changes to our livestyle.
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BrainCandy: It's not a choice between going back to the stone age or saving the planet.
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Vestin: Have you heard of the "minimalistic" eco-friendly approach ? It's three points:
"1* We shouldn't use up renewable resources faster than they can be renewed.
2* We shouldn't use up non-renewable resources faster than we discover new ones.
3* We shouldn't create more pollution than the ecosystem can neutralize."
As you might have guessed - we break all of those rules. Not doing so would require drastic changes to our livestyle.

Scarey stuff indeed, and I do not want to minimize the problem or suggest fake solutions.
I did not mean to imply that buying a game on GOG is the answer to all environmental woes--only that it's better than buying a new game on many levels. I saw the video linked at the start of the thread and thought "how could I reduce my consumption." Then I saw a game on here I wanted to buy and wondered how it fit into the calculation.
One other consideration is that for fans older games such as those offered on GOG, you don't simply walk into Gamestop and pick it up off the shelf: they simply won't have it in stock anymore. So our old option was to delve through Ebay, online shops halfway across the continent, finding those elusive copies of our old favorite games. Then they'd have to be shipped to us, usually using at least as much packaging to ship it as the game packaging itself, transportation costs for shipping etc all before it reaches our door. And be honest: for those of you who like to keep the game materials, how many of you are keeping the Amazon shipping box to display proudly?
Is GOG truly "Green"? I have no idea, I don't know where their power comes from. But it's certainly "Greener" and truthfully that's what we should be shooting for - the debate on going green is lost all too often on the all or nothing mentality, ("if it's not perfect it's still the problem!") rather than taking the steps we can, and acknowledging that any improvement in our consumption habits are a welcome change.
Maybe we'll eventually have digitized food...
Mmmmm... I can smell that digital burger cooking now...
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JonhMan: Maybe we'll eventually have digitized food...
Mmmmm... I can smell that digital burger cooking now...

Didn't they have that in Star Trek?