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JudasIscariot: I wouldn't have a problem with helping out Greece as a fellow member of the EU if we were making money in Euros.
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timppu: And as a member of a country which is using euro, I disagree that the currency decides which countries should participate and who should not in the PIIGS operations. Even though Finland happens to use the same currency as the PIIGS countries, it (or its banks) have less, if any, part in PIIGS problems, like that Finnish banks would have granted risky loans to them. Hence, something like UK should be much more attached to the operation than e.g. Finland, even though UK does not use euro.

The countries with the banks who have the biggest PIIGS risks should be the main contributors. They will be that anyway in case the PIIGS countries fall.
As a country that is firmly in the Eurozone, Finland stands on equal footing as far as paying into this rescue fund. One Euro = 4.51 PLN. Why should we pay to help a country where an average citizen makes around 1000 EU/month while in Poland the average citizen is lucky to get anywhere from 300-500 EU/month. This is almost like a billionaire whose yacht needs repairs but he makes his servants pick up the cost of repairs.

Give us equal Euro pay then maybe we'll think about helping out. Until then, let Greece go bankrupt. After all, it's possible that they used some "creative accounting" to get into the Eurozone anyways.
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timppu: SNIP
- US is just overall miffed that there is a mess in EU that can affect them too, and now the EU bastards want to use IMF money too for the mess.

- China is probably feeling a bit same as US.
SNIP
It's not so much that we're miffed about it, it's that we have our own problems. Nearly half of Americans live in poverty by our standards. Which means that folks are living pay check to paycheck, debt right now is at roughly our GDP and wages haven't been this low in decades. Pensions are almost unheard of and unless I emigrate, I won't have one in my lifetime.

One thing which people really don't understand typically about the US is that we have one of the largest spreads between poverty and wealth in the world. You get into places like reservations in South Dakota or the Hollers of Appalachia and there are people living in mind blowing poverty in the richest nation on Earth. These are people who lack things as basic as running water and electricity and have been completely left out of development going back many decades.

Personally, part of why I'm spending next year in China is that economically my outlook in the US right now isn't good.

I'd like to help out with these problems in much of the world, but I don't have access to the funds to do much. Most of the wealth in America is controlled by a small number of kleptocrats and the rest of us are left with relatively little after accounting for the cost of living.

What's worse is that the poverty level is based upon rural living and so anybody that's only making 200% of the federal poverty level is still really hard up, but not likely to be getting any help.

Things should be getting better in the future as our heatlh care reform kicks in and we join the civilized world with care for pretty much everybody, but until that happens wallets are going to be tight for most Americans.

And that doesn't take into account our other long term problems like our crumbling infrastructure, crippled political system and overspending on defense.
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JudasIscariot: SNIP
Give us equal Euro pay then maybe we'll think about helping out. Until then, let Greece go bankrupt. After all, it's possible that they used some "creative accounting" to get into the Eurozone anyways.
Possible? I thought that was pretty much agreed upon.

I haven't been to Greece, but my understanding that much of the rioting and protest has been similar to the OW movement in the US about making the rich and powerful pay their fair share. If I understand things correctly if the rich and powerful paid their taxes there'd be a lot less to fuel the protests.

Like I said, I haven't been there, but that's my understanding of it. Spending on credit to benefit the rich while failing to enforce and audit the taxes due by politicians and the well off.
Post edited December 16, 2011 by hedwards
I disagree with what Adamantios wrote. Go bankruptcy, get out of EU, which deprives the country of independence. It's an extreme nationalistic point of view.

Such opinions make me think that Greeks get what they deserve.

If Greece wants to ruin itself, it may do it. But Greeks have to understand what bankruptcy means not only for them. May anyone predict what would happen to the international economy? Greek protesters disagree with austerity measures, but what realistic alternative they have to suggest?

All the polls here in Greece show that the most Greeks think positive to the Eurozone. In a percentage which exceeds 90%. So they have to accept the obligations in order to stay in.

In my opinion EU have to stay together. And that would be my opinion even if Greece was the one that had to loan others. Today the problem is Greece, tomorrow would be another country. I always think of EU as a whole, even if I'm just a minority! I'm very disappointed by all the political leaders of Europe. They managed to make European nations to think more about each own again, than as a whole.
Post edited December 16, 2011 by vanchann