I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not, but assuming you're not...

What is so complex about Ultima III, exactly? It's got all the depth of an average NES JRPG, which isn't surprising given how that entire genre was directly influenced by Ultima III and Wizardry. Impressive for its time without a doubt, but hardly some paragon of incredible depth and complexity.

In fact, Ultima is one of the exact games I was thinking about when making this point. Mapping individual, barely-used functions to their own keys didn't actually make the game deep or complex, it just made the interface a barrier to entry. And in later games, remembering a large variety of keywords rather than having easy access to them in conversation did the same thing. It didn't add depth, choice, or role playing potential... the difficulty it added was meaningless.

Ultima III was a hugely important game, no doubt about that. It's also a pretty simple game compared to what came out even a couple years later. I still enjoy the series (5 is my favorite, mostly for the oppressive atmosphere), but they're not boundlessly complex and deep.

ultima was complex because the realism, the invetory managing was diffecult expacily after 6 i think but not only the ui is improved but more linair because they cant program a good system and randonmess in a game, i had tried to play dwarf fortress its a very huge and non linair game but the system itzelf is too diffecult for me and to be honest can they make a game as complex as that game with the latest graphics? I dont think so and daggerfall is a good example since most of the things were random in that game but it was as unstable as hell could they make a daggerfall with oblivion graphics? I dont think its possible i dont think it would sell well and the money they have to put in it too make that work. Oh yeah fall out is a good example as well it was very big and you could go whatever you want and there were monsters that you never could defeat if you dont use strategy while fallout 3 the game is limitid where you can go i found myself on areas that i couldnt get trough because of a pile of rubbisch in the way and some monsters you could already defeat on the early stages, like super mutants. I dont only mean complex if it comes to the ui but more the game expierence itself never have i got in a game these days that i feel im in a danger that i have to be careful or the game is scaled at your lvl or you can defeat most enemies. The only last game that gaves me the feeling of dread and danger is gothic 1 that the monsters you can encounter are too strong that you try diffrent approuach to get behind them. A pack of wolves are dangerous even if you are strong they surround you and are dangerous as hell.

I'd argue the inventory management was difficult because the UI was crap. Beyond that, what realism did Ultima III actually have? You had to buy food, and uh... what else? I think this is a case where the game's reputation overshadows the game itself, because although it was realistic for the time, in comparison to other RPGs of its era, it was hardly some kind of life simulator. It was a gigantic series of fetch quests in a world full of NPCs who only ever said one thing each. Play Risen.

true i heard that risen had that gothic style as well about ultima 3, to be honest i cant remember much about that 1 i only remember ultima 4 and 7 and 8 it was very hard to get around, it was even hard to get those games to run those days with that ems memory you needed to get that game to start.

Risen is the real Gothic 4. It even continues from the ending of Gothic 3, the only real difference being that it doesn't name any specific names. And the gameplay is Gothic 2 with a fresh coat of paint.

I've been known to rebuy crap just for the sake of it coming on a DVD compared to a multi-CD install.

true games like baldurs gate who got more then 1 cd is hanndy to have a version that you dont need to swap discs

glad you asked, i just finished my xcom playthrough few days ago and started with warhammer : shadow of the horned rat, i wanted to test if that "feeling" is still there and TBH it is, I know what happens in the game, how to beat it and there are no suprises anymore but nothing can beat your first terror mission on superhuman or the charge of the first ogre rat ;)
As far as I'm concerned, new games are good for buying and playing only when I read a crapton of reviews and hear from my mates that they enjoyed them, until then i stick with my good old games ;)

ah good old xcom i loved enemy unknown i bought it rescently from steam but im not very good at it it isnt an easy game.

be sure to install this,it's compatible with steam:
http://xcomutil.scotttjones.com/
great util that fixes many bugs and adds lots of new stuff. I didn't activate many of addons but maybe you'll find them helpful for your playthrough.
Also, here's everything you need to know about xcom. Enjoy :)
http://www.ufopaedia.org/

thanks m8 :) im glad there are stil people playing it to be honest last one i played from this franchise was apocalypse it sounds strange but i think the graphics how enemy unknown was made was just pperfekt

I agree, just look how it spawned a whole multitude of clones and a whole sub-genre, too bad they'll spoil it with a FPS :(
I hope I\ll find a PC DOS version of Laser Squad here on GOG, I owned it on commodore 64, heard PC version has much nicer graphics lol :D - check that game if you can, xcom evolved from it :)

Like most games of that vintage the Amiga version would be the one to get but obviously the DOS version is easier to get running on modern PC's.

Well I hope someone still has rights for that game, I'd love to have it on my PC. I saw it on some abandonware sites but i'd like a legal copy to stash in my hoard ;)

laser squad wgat a great time c64, amiga