The first sentance in first post should read this leads "nowhere" instead "nothing".
Part 2:

He knows who to pick as scum but still no vote.

Says he doesn't see Orryy's post as scummy. Yes, he is right but he considers them as slip-up, not that he believes him.
Finally votes Sir without any added evidences to his case.

Unvotes Sir four posts later after seeing that Orryy broke no rule.

Quiet for next 92 posts.
Then revotes Sir again. This time at least with some explanation.
Adds some thoughts on few players.
Also broke this thread for some people, definitelly scumtell. :-)

Admits part of his case gainst Sir is unjustified but his vote stays.

I wholeheartedly agree with him on this matter.

Don't think discussion should be taken out of game and denies it's rolefishing. While I agree with his opinion on post rest. in his post before I think bringing it up and trying to get something out of Xyem IS role-fishing.

Two posts on his broking of forum. This is already too long and it adds nothing so I'll skip them.

Asked by Frenchie why he is still voting Sir and he unvotes quickly.

Asked why he has unvoted as soon as asked about it and he plays it down. He says he would unvote sooner but made a mistake. But Twilight and Sir are still his primary suspects.
Fencing about Orry.

Decided to vote Orry and put him on L-1 (3 posts later than his hesistating about him).

His explaining why baz is town if Orryy flips town ends up with saying that Twilight is likely scum...

Thinks mafia is after experienced players. In fact accuses me and Sir but names no one.
I don't understand last sentance.

Is told by Rod who are the experienced players and confirms them as his targets.
Then he explains it has nothing to do with roles. Good.
Explains his toughts why he thinks night-kill targets were picked. Partly makes sense but in the same way he could be describing his own NK choices.

Still too long. To be continued...

Le bump :|

Sorry, I haven't realised it's so long but I wanted to contain everything to avoid selective quoting which can easily result in twisting.
Thanks to Xyem for placeholders.

Part 3

Accepts possibility of role-copping. Or is it sarcasm?

Against mass-claim. I concur.

Pazzer only mentioned possibility of nolynch and muttly accuses him of rush.


Sorry, I know I missed his 1st post but I am afraid to add it because I don't want to screw my long post.

Make of it whatever you want. Question it, destroy it or agree with it.
To me it makes muttly suspicious a lot but I admit I could be a bit single-minded. Vote muttly
On the other hand it could also lead to Sirprimal but I believe much more in his innocence than muttly's.

That is some work! All seemed pretty accurate to me, I was confused by this though if anyone can explain...

“”Also broke this thread for some people, definitelly scumtell. :-) “”

I have no idea what that means. Mentioned it another time as well.

So to address most of the post I will simply say, if you assume what I say is my true feeling at the time it all makes perfect sense.

Regarding the softclaim, I didnt even know what a softclaim was upon making my statements, simply RPing. Researched it later when it seemed to become a big deal and dropped the RP. I also did not know what the baker role specifically implied. In any case, that was pure RP and not in any way a claim.

TB - Struck me a scum, nothing more and I said as much. I wanted a D1 lynch not only because i wanted to see someone swing, but also I believed it was the best bet for town. Not for nothing I believe that has panned out true by the way.

O - I flip flopped many times on his in nonce/guilt. The massive amounts of claims and roles seemed ludicrous to me, I voted O without regret.

SPF - Still feel he is scum. I have in fact posted why. I also retracted based on SPF himself pointing out a inaccuracy in my logic regarding his voting record.

So, given the state of the game and Pazzer started the ball rolling I am going to imagine that the votes will now start rolling in. I am happy to answer any specific questions that might prove my innocence. But, in case this moves quickly, should I wrongly swing on the rope, I personally feel SPF ranks the highest on my scum meter, again based primarily on the timing and relatively non-impactful posts.

Pazzer now also lights my radar based on his speed to start day 4 lynching after being perfectly happy to sit on the sidelines with an occasional post here and there. Finally, I did not accuse him of rushing, i asked what his rush was. Again, after being more than happy on the sidelines he starts voting folks (not me by the way) instantly after day 4 starts crying woe for town since we are on the verge of losing.

And last but not least would be Xyem. For nothing more than having such issues with game play and then remaining essentially silent. Could simply be hes fed up, or could be he was trying to make a lot of noise and then disappear. This one would require a lot more for me to be convinced, but hes certainly possible in my mind.

"SPF - Still feel he is scum. I have in fact posted why. I also retracted based on SPF himself pointing out a inaccuracy in my logic regarding his voting record. "

To avoid confusion, this should have read something more like...

SPF - Still feel he is scum. I have in fact posted why. I also partially retracted based on SPF himself pointing out a inaccuracy in my logic regarding his voting record.

It's a mix of being annoyed but trying to avoid another argument that will dominate the day. Definitely don't need it at this stage. I've been quieter, but I wouldn't say I've been silent.

You mentioned pazzer's behaviour at the start of today and I do also find it suspicious at this delicate stage to start throwing votes immediately.. but I know others don't share my opinions on when votes should be used. However, I feel this is offset by the request for mass claim.

If we are at mislynch-and-lose then the mafia wouldn't really need to know roles. They'd just have to push for a townie to be lynched. As far as I can tell, the mafia knowing roles would only help them if they know this is going to go on for another day. So either pazzer is acting in towns interest or he's scum and knows more about the games setup which means it'll go to tomorrow even if we mislynch (like their only being 2 mafia or something).

First things first unvote Muttly

Interesting only two people bothered to give their opinions on a mass claim.

Am not in a rush at all in fact hope this day lasts a long time. As the situation means I can just relax and enjoy the game. Is very rare you're able to do that in mafia.

I took the decision to try and get things moving knowing full well it would make me apear mafia is some players eyes. But if towns going to win we need to get discussing and sharing information. Will go back to the sideline if you'd like me to Muttly.

@NotFrenchYet was just the way I read most of your posts. Threw it out there mainly to hear other players thoughts. As no one has commented on it I assume it's just me who read your posts that way. Why are you wary of Rabbit, me and Rodzaju?

@Rabbit who do you think is mafia and why?

@Vitek must have missed it in your long posts so can you point out the specific reason(s) you think Muttly is mafia

@Muttly why did TwilightBard strike you as scum?

@Xyem who do you think is mafia and why?

If I had to commit myself, I would name the mafia as Primal, Rabbit & Muttly.

I am in 2 minds about mass claim.
Following my flip flopping over Orry & the end result, I'll just go with the flow on this one....

I don't think a mass claim would help. We lynched Orry based on picking apart his outlandish claim, which turned out to be true. This doesn't seem a very reliable method of scumhunting in this game...

Here're my current reads, for what they're worth...

Current Suspects:

Rabbit because of the above spanner throwing, and other cases of the same thing. Also tendency to jump at things (the vote dance with Orry over xyem ; my 'that made me jump' bait back on D1)

Rod because of similar jumpy play, including the flipflopping over Orry which he himself pointed out, and the 'that made me jump' incident. Could be symptomatic of just going with the general flow of discussion and trying to blend in..?

Pazzer because of the sit waaaaay back and wait approach, appearing to hammer Orry then fading into the background again. Quick to start voting at the start of D4, and suggested mass claim right away. Coming out into the open now that most of the threats are silenced, maybe...? I don't know, but it feels strange.

Everyone else:

Primal should perhaps be pricking my radar since I don't have a clear read on him yet. Was the first to vote Orry after the rule 9 paradox was highlighted, and the first to wonder if we did the right thing after the hammer fell. Otherwise I don't really know. Clever disguise? I have no idea.

Xyem I'm not sure about either. There's not much to go on except the post restriction argument, and the D1 trainwreck. Attracted votes on D1 but nothing came of it. Is it mafia play to poke his head in on a grand scale and make a mark on the thread, then withdraw?

Muttly I was suspicious of at first, but his play is inconsistent like a new player would be... I think... I'm more inclined to believe that he's still finding his feet. Some posts make much more sense than others.

Vitek's percentages confuse me. Admire the PBP analysis. Not entirely sure what to make of his general play yet.

Frenchie: crashed with the lynch wagon and is still dazed... >_>;

"That made me jump"?
Are you referring to my post 422?
If not, what are you referring to?

Anyway, going back to the 'picking off the experienced players' theory, I suspect that the scum are probably 2 inexperienced players, with an older hand guiding them, which having read back through the thread led me to the names I posted in 518.

Reading back also reminded me that I haven ot yet voted today.
Vote LittleRabbit

I would like to point out that my voting then was after joe's change, so I didn't think I was doing any harm, until I got told I was being scummy, after which I got frightened (because I was pounced on for what I thought was no reason) and unvoted because I didn't understand. I didn't point this out earlier because the discussion moved pretty swiftly on from there and at the time I didn't think it would add anything meaningful.
I threw the spanner before because i had doubts about Orryy which were correct. I asked for discussion about Xyem because I wasn't sure what to make of him, but only two or three (don't remember sorry) posts were forthcoming, after which everyone focussed on orryy again. At that point I would have shouted at you all, if it weren't for the fact that I was dancing with Joe at a ceilidh. (joe can testify to this!) so couldn't post.

What Rod? This is the thing that I did before where everyone said it was scummy to vote without giving a reason! :C

I used to think Rod was kindof scummy, but have recently amended my opinion.But I need to read further on this to understand better.

Expect a read from me at some point today.

As I said, I think it likely that 2 of the mafia are newer players.
I'm considering the newer players to be Frenchie, Muttly & Rabbit.
I see Frenchie as the towniest of the three of you, which leaves the other 2 as scum, with a more experienced player helping you to avoid any stupidly obvious slip-ups.
This led to me naming the 3 scum (as I see it) in post 518.

When I have more time, probably this evening, I will give a more detailed breakdown of where this comes from, but it is largely based on the feeling of the game, rather than any concrete evidence.

I have two main reasons why do do think so.

1. Because he wanted to lynch twilight on Day 1 no matter what.
2. On day 2 he switched to Sirprimal but he was fence-sitting about him (and about Orryy) all the time. He voted them only when asked and unvoted on the same basis only few posts later. This is my main reason.

Regarding Orryy I am most concerned about way you stated you believe him and then voted him only 3 posts later.
Regarding SPF, you stated your case, without vote, then added another part, without vote again. Later with no additional reasons you voted him while your whole post was about Orryy. Then you unvoted him 4 posts later and later revoted him again. Then you admitted he has point in his favor, but no unvote. Then you were asked about it and you quickly unvoted, although he was still your primary suspect.

It was joke.
You closed bold tags incorrectly in one of your posts (#377) and some people had this thread bolded from then on. At least I think it works like that, I've never experienced it myself.

1 - Again, this was primarily RP. Not to say I wouldnt have lynched him given the chance as i did get the feeling he was scum, but the "no matter what" was based on RP. And should you be referring to the aftermath of RP, that was based on my belief that lynching someone day 1 would be better than no one. To me TB was the scummiest read. Clearly I was incorrect.

2 - On Orry I will not defend myself past saying I changed my mind multiple times, simple as that. SPF was a simple error in not unvoting him when I realized my mistake. He is still my primary suspect, yet further solidified by his complete silence in all this. Although admittedly many people have gone silent the last few days so that could be a lot of things.

3 - Ahhhh yes, I had forgotten about that!

This comment continues to bother me despite the explanation SPF has given.

SPF says it was in response to "offence" at being regarded as suspicious even though he was trying to help. I can relate to that (see D1 :P), so it isn't that that bothers me.. more the wording and timing.

"The likes of you" makes it sound like it wasn't only directed at littlerabbit but to all the newbies (which I'm not considered as for some odd reason).. despite only littlerabbit having the suspicion.

If he was only defending them against RVS, "any more" is several days late. If he was defending up until that comment.. was it public? I don't recall any.