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wanderer_27: Auto-patching
DRM Free"

That sounds suspiciously like DRM . . . I'm at a loss on this now.
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F4LL0UT: Dude, even The Witcher 2 has an auto patcher (and I think so does Rise of the Tread and maybe a few other games on GOG). "Auto patching" does not imply that there's some check from the server side whether you have a legitimate copy or that you won't be able to play the game if you are unable to connect at any point. Auto patching normally really only means that the the game or its launch program (from where you can also set the graphics and stuff) will check whether there's a newer version available online and spare you the hassle of re-downloading and manually reinstalling the whole game.
Didn't know that about the Witcher 2 (haven't installed it yet), but the only patching I believe I've experienced through GOG is reloading the game from GOG when there's an Update tagged on my account.

Might just be certain games, so I'm not disputing what you say, just haven't seen it myself that I know of.
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RadonGOG: Well, I thrust GOG to do the best for it´s customers.
Hehehe that's right, you thrust them.... you thrust them realllllll good. GOG staff respond well to thrusting, some more than others. A good thrust at the right person and in the right place is what got System Shock 2 on here (and people thought it was due to begging constantly and the wishlist and a change in licensing).
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RadonGOG: Well, I thrust GOG to do the best for it´s customers.
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serpantino: Hehehe that's right, you thrust them.... you thrust them realllllll good. GOG staff respond well to thrusting, some more than others. A good thrust at the right person and in the right place is what got System Shock 2 on here (and people thought it was due to begging constantly and the wishlist and a change in licensing).
I´m not sure: Are you making fun on my "thrust"---"trust" typo or is this comment non-ironic?
If it´s not ironic:

Thats also why I think that this issue here is important: Everything on GOG is build upon trust and if it gots hurt, like here, everything could collapse in a short time. So I´d really like to here something from officals...
Truth be told I don't come to gog for indie games.

I like FTL a lot, but the rest... meh. Even the praised Bastion bored me quickly. Sure, the narrator has a great voice, but I found the gameplay to be quite repetitive and story to be uninteresting.
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wanderer_27: Didn't know that about the Witcher 2 (haven't installed it yet), but the only patching I believe I've experienced through GOG is reloading the game from GOG when there's an Update tagged on my account.
Yeah, most developers do not include auto patching probably because they prefer if all the traffic remains the responsibility of the distributors. After all, that's one of the benefits of a third party handling distribution.

But I know where you got that idea with auto patching being DRM from. Frankly I myself feel a little awkward whenever a single player game wants to use an internet connection for anything and also prefer standalone patches, no matter how much a developer insists that it's just a *good* feature designed for my convenience. The irony is that auto patching is often pretty much a very noble thing to implement and it's almost crazy that it's a feature that may cause uneasiness in your game's players when you have solely good intentions (possibly another reason why few developers use auto patchers).

My only serious issue with auto patching is that it may make a developer neglect standalone patches and make it hard (or hypothetically even impossible) for people to play a game's final version once the update servers have been shut down (and let's face it, a game's official servers are often shut down pretty soon, a company doesn't even necessarily have to cease to exist for that to happen).
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RadonGOG: I´m not sure: Are you making fun on my "thrust"---"trust" typo or is this comment non-ironic?
If it´s not ironic:

Thats also why I think that this issue here is important: Everything on GOG is build upon trust and if it gots hurt, like here, everything could collapse in a short time. So I´d really like to here something from officals...
I was just joking about the typo. I meant no offense.

To give a more serious response:
Chances are, in this case that they either haven't actually contacted GOG and are under the mistaken impression that GOG is only after new indies or they can't come to an agreeable deal/won't relinquish the drm they use.

Gog has a long history of messing up where trust and faith is concerned but, unlike most sites, it's almost entirely unintentional on their part and they are openly apologetic about things. They're actually pretty respectful of their users and really do put the effort in to give us what we want. I do think they struggle with their current work force versus work load though as game testing has been lax of late and support queries can take a while.

Also if you're hoping for an official response you'd have been better off with a more descriptive title as the gog members that frequent the forums aren't too likely to pay much attention to a thread with the title you've chosen. Something like 'Why isn't Q.U.B.E on GOG?' might've gone down a bit better.
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RadonGOG: I really love your site, GOG team and I keep praising you all day. I´m even running a fanclub for you...
But today, I´ve got very disappointed.
Today, I´ve got the answer from the developers of the amazing 1st-person-puzzle-game Q.U.B.E.

My previous message:

Dear Developers at Toxic Games!

Why isn´t your fantastic game also availible on GOG.com?
Is there any specific reason for that?
I´m just wondering, course you are already offering a DRM-free Version.
Anyways, I like GOG more than any other download service, so it would be very nice if you could get in contact to GOG to make your game availible on this wonderful gaming-platform.
http://www.gog.com/indie

Yours

(...)

"Thanks for getting in touch. Unfortunately GOG only take newly released indie games so we couldn't get on there but we have met with them several times. You can find a DRM version of QUBE on many other sites though, such as Gamersgate and Greenman Gaming.

Thanks,

Dan"

"Newly released indie games?!" Are you kidding me, GOG?

This is just pissing me off: Why do you refuse to add such a great game?
Do you think it wouldn´t be worth to be part of your catalogue? Can you even think about folks won´t play this game only because YOU didn´t add this to your cataloge?

With Magrunner and The Swapper we´ve already got two Portal-Likes here and as we´ll never get Portal here, you HAVE to at least collect every clone/ inspired game that´s out there

Oh, and could you please INFORM us every time you reject a developer in future? It would be WAY more friendly and fair, for the developers as well as for the customers...
Oh, and @all others: Go vote for it, it´s the least thing we can do!
http://www.gog.com/wishlist/games/qube
Did you get stuffed in lockers a lot when you were in school. I hope so, and I'm staunchly anti-bully.
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wanderer_27: Didn't know that about the Witcher 2 (haven't installed it yet), but the only patching I believe I've experienced through GOG is reloading the game from GOG when there's an Update tagged on my account.
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F4LL0UT: Yeah, most developers do not include auto patching probably because they prefer if all the traffic remains the responsibility of the distributors. After all, that's one of the benefits of a third party handling distribution.

But I know where you got that idea with auto patching being DRM from. Frankly I myself feel a little awkward whenever a single player game wants to use an internet connection for anything and also prefer standalone patches, no matter how much a developer insists that it's just a *good* feature designed for my convenience. The irony is that auto patching is often pretty much a very noble thing to implement and it's almost crazy that it's a feature that may cause uneasiness in your game's players when you have solely good intentions (possibly another reason why few developers use auto patchers).

My only serious issue with auto patching is that it may make a developer neglect standalone patches and make it hard (or hypothetically even impossible) for people to play a game's final version once the update servers have been shut down (and let's face it, a game's official servers are often shut down pretty soon, a company doesn't even necessarily have to cease to exist for that to happen).
Yeah, the single player wanting to connect just raises questions for me.

Also, I tend to delay patching sometimes to make sure there are no issues with it.
Even Microsoft has had trouble with patching (bricking Computers).
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RadonGOG: But I do not even think that those two aspects will consume more than five hours, maybe the other factors will consume the same.
So there´d still be some profit; not that much in comparision to a monster-seller, but it would be quite O.K.
Now if only you didn't base *everything* on completely hypothetical numbers, starting with the effort it takes to publish the game up to expected sales. Fun fact: Race the Sun sold only ~770 copies during its launch month on multiple distributors including GOG. So clearly a game can fare far worse than 1000 copies sold a month and already the $3000 you mentioned feel like a ridiculous sum. We're talking about a distributor here, a complex machinery powered by a whole bunch of people who have to do a fair amount of work before a release (like QA, a process other distributors omit and that the developers/publishers are often fully responsible for) and who have to maintain servers and provide support afterwards. There's no way for us to know what kind of sales a game needs to be profitable for GOG.

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RadonGOG: Oh, and the game can be bundled afterwards ;)
That can create some more profit too... ;)
You mean like when Amanita Design fucked GOG and everyone who had pre-ordered Botanicula through GOG by instantly publishing it through Humble Bundle? :P

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RadonGOG: And reviews are, as stated earlier, also quite fine!
Same was true for Ethan: Meteor Hunter and we know how that worked out. Opinions by the people who actually played a game often have almost no impact on how a game sells (possibly the most famous example being Psychonauts which was a commercial disaster despite fantastic reviews - until it was re-released digitally that is). I don't know how Q.U.B.E. has been doing so far but if it hasn't been doing well then whatever is keeping people from buying it so far will probably keep them from buying it from GOG.
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serpantino: I was just joking about the typo. I meant no offense.
You joked friggin' good, though. It made me laugh so hard that I almost woke up my GF. :D
Post edited December 15, 2013 by F4LL0UT
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Wishbone: How do you know? Do you think it is free for GOG to add another game to the catalog? There's negotiations to be done, legal documents to be drafted, installers to be made, product entries to be created, game cards to be designed, and the whole thing has to be supported afterwards. All of these things are done by people, and they are not doing it in their spare time out of the goodness of their hearts. They are doing it because it's their job, and because it is their job they are getting paid for it.

1,000 copies of a $10 game makes $10,000. If GOG gets 30% of that, that's $3,000. How many man-hours does that buy, do you think? I'll give you a hint, it's not a lot.
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RadonGOG: 3000$. What costs will publishing a game like Qube proberbly cost GOG?
Trailers are already ready, download traffic won´t hit that much, legal documents seems always be nearly the same.
The only two really hitting aspects are the gamecard (lots of good design here) and the "this week on GOG.com"-Videos.

But I do not even think that those two aspects will consume more than five hours, maybe the other factors will consume the same.
So there´d still be some profit; not that much in comparision to a monster-seller, but it would be quite O.K.

Oh, and the game can be bundled afterwards ;)
That can create some more profit too... ;)
Oh dear. I'm guessing you're not involved in any kind of business in real life, are you?

Running a business costs money. Lots of money. And adding a new game to the catalog takes time. Lots of time. And all the normal day-to-day costs not directly related to any specific game have to be covered as well. This means things such as rent, maintenance of the servers, website and forum, salaries (employees are getting paid full-time, even when they're not working on something related to a specific game). These costs also have to be covered by the releases GOG makes.
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RadonGOG: Oh, and the game can be bundled afterwards ;)
That can create some more profit too... ;)
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F4LL0UT: You mean like when Amanita Design fucked GOG and everyone who had pre-ordered Botanicula through GOG by instantly publishing it through Humble Bundle? :P
As far as I recall, it was both GOG and GamersGate. And they both had pre-orders. So yes, Amanita Design really pissed on a lot of people.
Post edited December 16, 2013 by Wishbone
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RadonGOG: But I do not even think that those two aspects will consume more than five hours, maybe the other factors will consume the same.
So there´d still be some profit; not that much in comparision to a monster-seller, but it would be quite O.K.
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F4LL0UT: Now if only you didn't base *everything* on completely hypothetical numbers, starting with the effort it takes to publish the game up to expected sales. Fun fact: Race the Sun sold only ~770 copies during its launch month on multiple distributors including GOG. So clearly a game can fare far worse than 1000 copies sold a month and already the $3000 you mentioned feel like a ridiculous sum. We're talking about a distributor here, a complex machinery powered by a whole bunch of people who have to do a fair amount of work before a release (like QA, a process other distributors omit and that the developers/publishers are often fully responsible for) and who have to maintain servers and provide support afterwards. There's no way for us to know what kind of sales a game needs to be profitable for GOG.

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RadonGOG: Oh, and the game can be bundled afterwards ;)
That can create some more profit too... ;)
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F4LL0UT: You mean like when Amanita Design fucked GOG and everyone who had pre-ordered Botanicula through GOG by instantly publishing it through Humble Bundle? :P

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RadonGOG: And reviews are, as stated earlier, also quite fine!
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F4LL0UT: Same was true for Ethan: Meteor Hunter and we know how that worked out. Opinions by the people who actually played a game often have almost no impact on how a game sells (possibly the most famous example being Psychonauts which was a commercial disaster despite fantastic reviews - until it was re-released digitally that is). I don't know how Q.U.B.E. has been doing so far but if it hasn't been doing well then whatever is keeping people from buying it so far will probably keep them from buying it from GOG.
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serpantino: I was just joking about the typo. I meant no offense.
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F4LL0UT: You joked friggin' good, though. It made me laugh so hard that I almost woke up my GF. :D
1st: You´ve got right, it´s hard to actually tell how many copies a title will sell and if you will do make profit with that one!
2nd: Well, Ethan: Metheor Hnter is some of a non-reviewed-game:
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/ethan-meteor-hunter
Four magazine reviews? That´s nothing. If nobody knows if a game is good and it´s not having an astonishing trailer, how should it sell many copies?
Q.U.B.E. is a total different thing at that point!
3rd: Big surprise for me that RaceTheSun haven´t sold that many copies yet, but it has also been a not-so-often reviewed game. (magazine reviews only came many weeks after release) That´s never good!
4th: Q.U.B.E. has been a lot in spotlights, I´d even say that it´s one of the most famous portal-likes out there...
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rrr8891: snip
Well, your post is a shame for this communit. Simply a shame!

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RadonGOG: I´m not sure: Are you making fun on my "thrust"---"trust" typo or is this comment non-ironic?
If it´s not ironic:

Thats also why I think that this issue here is important: Everything on GOG is build upon trust and if it gots hurt, like here, everything could collapse in a short time. So I´d really like to here something from officals...
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serpantino: I was just joking about the typo. I meant no offense.

To give a more serious response:
Chances are, in this case that they either haven't actually contacted GOG and are under the mistaken impression that GOG is only after new indies or they can't come to an agreeable deal/won't relinquish the drm they use.

Gog has a long history of messing up where trust and faith is concerned but, unlike most sites, it's almost entirely unintentional on their part and they are openly apologetic about things. They're actually pretty respectful of their users and really do put the effort in to give us what we want. I do think they struggle with their current work force versus work load though as game testing has been lax of late and support queries can take a while.

Also if you're hoping for an official response you'd have been better off with a more descriptive title as the gog members that frequent the forums aren't too likely to pay much attention to a thread with the title you've chosen. Something like 'Why isn't Q.U.B.E on GOG?' might've gone down a bit better.
Thanks for the clearification.
If I look at your post again, it now seems very obvious---quite nice humor... ;)

@your point concerning the title:
I actually made this topic out of a short moment, I didn´t plan it.
"GOG rejects Q.U.B.E., don´t they?" or so would be a better one, I agree!
Post edited December 16, 2013 by RadonGOG
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RadonGOG: Four magazine reviews? That´s nothing. If nobody knows if a game is good and it´s not having an astonishing trailer, how should it sell many copies?
1. There's far more reviews for Ethan out there than on Metacritic including ones from well-known publications like IGN (which are completely missing from Metacritic for some reason) and I'm pretty sure that the true average score is a lot higher than the current Metascore after I've checked a few of the missing ones
2. Ethan's trailer left more of an impression on me than Q.U.B.E.'s.
3. Q.U.B.E. has a Metascore of 69. 69! Dude, that's not a game with universal critical acclaim! And the user score of 7.5 is pretty good, yeah, but it still doesn't make the game appear like the magnificent masterpiece you want it to be. You REALLY need another strategy than citing the game's critical reception if you want to convince anyone of the game's greatness. :P

And dude, I'm not trying to convince you that Q.U.B.E. is a bad game and that it doesn't deserve to be on GOG. I'm just saying that your arguments and your whole outrage for GOG turning the game down so far really appear unjustified.

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RadonGOG: 3rd: Big surprise for me that RaceTheSun haven´t sold that many copies yet, but it has also been a not-so-often reviewed game. (magazine reviews only came many weeks after release) That´s never good!
Actually these days it's considered a good strategy to wait with review requests until a game has been released because readers can instantly buy the game after reading/watching a review while the impressions are still fresh. Many reviewers themselves recommend that to indie developers.
Post edited December 16, 2013 by F4LL0UT
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RadonGOG: Four magazine reviews? That´s nothing. If nobody knows if a game is good and it´s not having an astonishing trailer, how should it sell many copies?
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F4LL0UT: 1. There's far more reviews for Ethan out there than on Metacritic including ones from well-known publications like IGN (which are completely missing from Metacritic for some reason) and I'm pretty sure that the true average score is a lot higher than the current Metascore after I've checked a few of the missing ones
2. Ethan's trailer left more of an impression on me than Q.U.B.E.'s.
3. Q.U.B.E. has a Metascore of 69. 69! Dude, that's not a game with universal critical acclaim! And the user score of 7.5 is pretty good, yeah, but it still doesn't make the game appear like the magnificent masterpiece you want it to be. You REALLY need another strategy than citing the game's critical reception if you want to convince anyone of the game's greatness. :P

And dude, I'm not trying to convince you that Q.U.B.E. is a bad game and that it doesn't deserve to be on GOG. I'm just saying that your arguments and your whole outrage for GOG turning the game down so far really appear unjustified.

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RadonGOG: 3rd: Big surprise for me that RaceTheSun haven´t sold that many copies yet, but it has also been a not-so-often reviewed game. (magazine reviews only came many weeks after release) That´s never good!
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F4LL0UT: Actually these days it's considered a good strategy to wait with review requests until a game has been released because readers can instantly buy the game after reading/watching a review while the impressions are still fresh. Many reviewers themselves recommend that to indie developers.
Well, you are right.
I´ve maybe exaggregated a bit in my whole WallOfPosts...
Anyways, I still hope that it could be released in DirectorCut Edition here.
Oh, and in general I think it would be good if GOG could add a "too less votes"-area at wishlist-entries!